A silent can of worms....

Incubus

Champion Elect
Surely I can't be the only one to be concerned about what we're seeing here:


Why do the potentially serious implication of this seem to slip under the radar?
As far as I know there are only two cars per team eligible on today's F1 grid.

Red Bull effectively have four.

What happens when Hamilton, Alonso or Button compete against Vettel for the title at te last race if say, Torro Rosso driver jumps out of Vettel's way but keeps other teams' drivers beind for a couple of laps or so?

Just one hypothetical scenario among others, but for watever reason the powers-that-be don't seem to view the implications of different teams with the same owners something worth pondering about.

Seems to me the potential is there for a huge can of worms, one that is bound to have serious implications for F1's future. Where does it stop?

Forget about the team orders debate, inter-team collusion is of graver concern methinks.
 

no-FIAt-please

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
This is an old issue that has been apparant for a long time. Even if that scenario did occur it would be flatly denied and would be very difficult to prove, seemingly the only way to do so would be by the radio messages being transmitted and one would assume that Toro Rosso would be clever enough to disguish it.

The same arguement could be made for Ferrari and Sauber, or perhaps Mercedes and Force India, McLaren and Force India, McLaren and Marussia or Red Bull and Lotus. Over half the grid is heavily linked with other teams whether it be through ownership or technology deals.
 

Incubus

Champion Elect
Yes of course. Several teams in the past have shared technology or engine suppliers.
But they still raced each other and most importantly they did not share the same paymaster!
 

HammydiRestarules

Di Resta fan :).
Contributor
Marko was bang out of order marching down to the Toro Rosso pit and having a go at Jamie like that. He was also on a lap and had every right to stay ahead of Vettel to get a good lap. I now feel that this incident alone is the reason why Toro Rosso have sacked him. Got to feel sorry for the lad, he was just about getting the team to work around him and he gets the boot. No wonder he was angry on his twitter page!
 

MCLS

Anti F1 fan
Valued Member
While half the teams might be tied to the other, it seems that Red Bull take this association even further when it comes to cars in the way. Somehow I can't see Mclaren storming down to Force India because Di Resta held up Hamilton on a lap.
 

HammydiRestarules

Di Resta fan :).
Contributor
While half the teams might be tied to the other, it seems that Red Bull take this association even further when it comes to cars in the way. Somehow I can't see Mclaren storming down to Force India because Di Resta held up Hamilton on a lap.

Neither can I!
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Somehow I can't see Mclaren storming down to Force India because Di Resta held up Hamilton on a lap.

Really? I can see every chance of any TP or driver marching down the pit lane, or off to the stewards office, if they feel aggrieved in some way at the actions of another driver. Red Bull pay the money for Toro Rosso and Marko is the team's driver manager why can't he explain to Jamie what he's doing wrong? BTW, Red Bull and STR aren't the first teams to share a sponsor and I'm pretty sure Marlboro have interfered in teams before, hence why Ron Dennis currently runs Mclaren!
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
He who pays the piper calls the tune. Not saying Jamie was doing anything wrong but if you are 3rd or 4th driver in the Red Bull team you should know your place. Marko should have kept his gob shut until behind closed doors is the only comment I would make.
 

Josephiah

Podium Finisher
In a fairer world it would be Vettel's engineers taking the blame for putting him out in a poor track position. Unfortunately, it's not a fair world, so a smarter move for Jaime would've been to let him past. Then again, he probably wasn't (and shouldn't have been put in position where he had to be) thinking about contract politics during his hot lap.
 

Incubus

Champion Elect
While half the teams might be tied to the other, it seems that Red Bull take this association even further when it comes to cars in the way. Somehow I can't see Mclaren storming down to Force India because Di Resta held up Hamilton on a lap.

----------------------------------------

Well I can actually, but only out of irritation rather than paymasters' indignation.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Marko was bang out of order marching down to the Toro Rosso pit and having a go at Jamie like that. He was also on a lap and had every right to stay ahead of Vettel to get a good lap. I now feel that this incident alone is the reason why Toro Rosso have sacked him. Got to feel sorry for the lad, he was just about getting the team to work around him and he gets the boot. No wonder he was angry on his twitter page!

Pitpass have some interesting comments here.
They claim that Alguersuari's fate was decided at the Singapore GP before this argument took place, although no one told Jaime. And that his 8th place at the Canadian GP invoked a performance clause that stopped him from being replaced by Daniel Ricciardo mid season.

Why on earth they didn't tell him or Buemi that they weren't getting a seat is beyond me, that is...if it's true.

The rumour about the performance clause is I presume correct as I have heard is several times, and sounds just about right since he was doing poor with no points on the board.

Think this video is blown out of proportion, especially by the Spanish media, claiming this was the reason why he was dropped, also (is it Will Buxton?) saying "Marko tears Jaime apart in Korea practice", doesn't seem as if Marko is tearing apart one bit, just arguing.

Expected some raised voices...but nah...it wasn't to be.
 

mjo

Procrastinating
Contributor
I think there will always be an element of this until the FIA put stricter controls on inter-team collusion/relations. But, for this case, it would be easier for the rich middle-eastern people to buy out Toro Rosso, as there were rumours about a few months ago.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
European Grand Prix 1997 courtesy of Wikipedia:

On November 8, The Times newspaper published an article accusing Williams and McLaren of colluding to decide the finishing order at the end of the Grand Prix.[14] The article's claims were based on recordings of the radio transmissions made by the two teams.[15] The FIA World Council rejected the claims when the matter was brought before them. FIA president Max Mosley stated "It is quite clear that the result of the race was not fixed. There was no arrangement between McLaren and Williams that Mika Häkkinen was going to win. They were able to demonstrate very clearly that was not the case."[16]
In 2006, Norberto Fontana claimed in an interview with the Argentinian newspaper Olé[17] that a few hours before the Grand Prix the Ferrari team director Jean Todt visited the Sauber motorhome and told the Swiss team, which used Ferrari engines at the time, that the Saubers must block Jacques Villeneuve if they were in a position to do so in order to help Michael Schumacher win the World Championship.
The Sauber team owner and manager at the time, Peter Sauber has however denied these allegations and said "Ferrari never expressed the desire that we should obstruct an opponent of Schumacher on the track"

Murray Walker: "A case of champagne from Ferrari to Sauber for Norberto Fontana. Because the Argentinian newcomer, up from Formula Three, really, really, helped Michael Schumacher on his way there"​
Martin Brundle: "What engines have they got in that Sauber, Murray? Isn't it a Ferrari?"​
Murray Walker: "Well it is, yes. Martin, you are a cynical chap"​

Murder not proven! At least Marko was open and up front...
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
While half the teams might be tied to the other, it seems that Red Bull take this association even further when it comes to cars in the way. Somehow I can't see Mclaren storming down to Force India because Di Resta held up Hamilton on a lap.

No but I can see them storming down the pitlane to do a deal with Williams to give Mika Hakkenien his debut victory! oooppps - sorry still bitter on that one myself. As is DC I imagine!

Anyways on the issue - yes its a worry but its not an old worry its been around for a long time. Nearly exactly the same was when Michael Schmacher let his brother Ralf unlap himself right at the end of a GP and because of that Ralf passed someone on his extra lap and picked a point up.

Anyone see Adrian Sutil dive out the way to let Lewis Hamilton through because he's his best mate?

Yes I know these things aren't quite the same as the Toro Rosso situation but you can see favouritism everywhere. If Red Bull hadn't bought that team for its junior team it would no longer be in business and I'm glad they did - is there a question of favourtism maybe? yes of course but no more than when a Ferrari used to come lap a Minardi with a cut price Ferrari engine in it.

As for that being the reason Alguersauri got sacked. I think you're under estimating JEV and Ricciardo. I'll go as far to say that at the end of next season no one will be questioning whether it was a strange move or not.
 
Top Bottom