Grand Prix 2021 Dutch Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

There hasn't been a Dutch Grand Prix since 1985. This was back in the last days of the turbo monsters with Nelson Piquet on pole in the Brabham BMW, the race won by Niki Lauda in the McLaren TAG with Alain Prost second. I doubt we will see a McLaren 1-2 this weekend, but then there have been some strange things happen this season so who knows.

The new Zandvoort is very different to the old circuit. The only corner any of us who watched races in the past will recognise is the hairpin know as "Tarzan". This has created some great incidents in the past, with Prost and Piquet clashing in 1983 and Derek Daly flying through the air in 1981. It is a genuine overtaking opportunity, which many F1 tracks lack these days, although some might argue attempts at overtaking are frowned upon these days as Red Bull will lodge a complaint.

You couldn't wish for a more different location to the race in Belgium. Spa is high up (in Belgian terms anyway) in the forest, surrounded by trees and hills. Zandvoort is right by the beach, in some places is below sea level and if you stand on the banks around the track you can see the sea. Expect it to still be hammering down with rain though. Perhaps drainage in the sand will be better than it was in the hills but a note of caution, there is the new banked section of track and for some very serious reasons racing cars don't typically compete on banking in the rain.

Courtesy of our friends at Wikipedia, here's a track map.

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I assume Arie Luyenduk curve has a mullet!

The race is 72 laps long and Ferrari have won it most often, with 9 wins in the 34 times it has taken place.

Enjoy!
 

Brogan

Legend
Staff Member
Verstappen claims he lost around a quarter of a second due to a double shift and DRS failure.

Clearly the RB is the fastest car on the grid by some margin now.
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
thought max had pole in bag but that 2nd lap was vital problem or no problem. as he improved by 0.038 secs & only got pole by 0.038 secs. the tight circuits alot like Austria certainly play to red bull strengths. but also at the start of the year this is what happened. red bull much quicker in qualifying but Mercedes were quicker in the race

i feel Vettel pain because he couldve very easily have done a Webber Valencia 2010 but the problem is 1st how do you punish the haas team. as you cant give them a grid Penalty as theyll go from 19th 20th & then when 10 place grid Penalty is applied. 19th & 20th. also how to do stop the bunching because its needs to stop & next week we are going to the scene of the hilarious farcial qualifying from 2019 when everyone waited so long that the time ran out. delta lap times arent working should they try delta sectors a minimum speed in the final sector
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race worries probally will be bad. but i thought during F3. that it reminds me of Bahrain outer. very quick alot of small gaps. but the overtakes will be spectacular
 
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cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
I solved the Grid Penalty thing a long time ago.

If a team gets a 10 place grid drop and qualify 17th for example, they drop three places and then start the race from the end of the pit lane where they are held for a further 7 seconds after the last car has past the pit lane exit

Also, I hate the fact a grid drop is applied at the very end of qualification. The problem with this is for example, when a driver qualifies 8th and is the given a 5 place drop, the car that finished Q2 in 11th was denied a chance to run but was always going to be bumped up to 10th anyway.

My solution is to apply the grid drop at the start of qualifying therefore if a car has a 5 place drop and finished Q1 in 14th, they drop to 19th and are out, qualifying then continues as normal. If the driver qualifies 9th at the end of Q1 they are actually 14th and through. Then if they qualify 9th in Q2 they are 14th and out. That is a perfectly fair way to apply the penalty.

The way it's done at the moment it would be the same as a football referee seeing a red card foul but not giving the red car until after the final whistle.
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
yeah i like the idea of that. so bottas in Belgium wouldve had to finish 10th in Q1 & 5th in Q2 to make Q3.

but probably with the holding them /adding it on to pitstop. it not a penalty. finishing 50secs behind is no different to finishing a minute behind. i think penalty points or combo of both might be only option
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
something about this race. i keep thinking we are gling to get more controversy. as verstappen like Hamilton in Silverstone will not give an inch with all these fans. cheering him on
 

olegg

Race Winner
The track is difficult for driving.
An intense race.
23 overtakings.
Hamilton could only count on a mistake by Verstappen or Red Bull.
Bottas, it seems, no longer had the motivation to fight for anything more than 3rd place.
 

Dartman

Pole Sitter
The problem Bottas has is if he doesn't get his finger out who will want him, he's not a Kimi at the same age and no real reputation of being phenomenally quick in races regularlyl
 

olegg

Race Winner
The track is difficult for driving.
An intense race.
23 overtakings.
Hamilton could only count on a mistake by Verstappen or Red Bull.
Bottas, it seems, no longer had the motivation to fight for anything more than 3rd place.
Although, of course, the lag behind the partner by half a minute,
even though the partner has additional pit stop,
it is impossible to explain one loss of motivation...
 

Brogan

Legend
Staff Member
All of the F1 media outlets would have you believe it was an amazing race and Verstappen drove brilliantly to win it.

In reality the headlines should be something along the lines of "Driver in fastest car comfortably qualifies on pole and wins the race without being at risk of ever losing it".
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
The track looks too narrow for modern F1

As for Bottas it would be interesting to see Wolff's decision now.

Perez was nowhere but the apparent mix up.about fastest lap you have to wonder 🤔 what mind games is Bottas playing

The unthinkable would be to get Russell our of his Williams contract early if De Vries is definitely going to replace him there
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
It’s not just too narrow for f1, it also doesn’t have long enough straights…

being honest, the circuit was too small for F1 back in 1985… now it’s like a go-kart track!

That being said, Perez did manage some overtakes..
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
"All of the F1 media outlets would have you believe it was an amazing race and Hamilton drove brilliantly to win it.

In reality the headlines should be something along the lines of "Driver in fastest car comfortably qualifies on pole and wins the race without being at risk of ever losing it"."

That would apply to the last seven years.
 
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