2020 Silly Season

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Perez beat Hulkenberg 2-1 as teammates.

2014- 59- 96
2015 78-58
2016 101- 72

Perez = 238 pts
Hulkenberg = 226 pts

Not a lot in it

However Perez is a permanent midfield man and if anything his decision to stay with Force India reminds me a bit of Pierluigi Martini back in the 90's

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/927045/1/racing-point-well-our-way-setting-2020-driver-lineup Big deal its not like they will be challenging for the front sooner with the two peddlers we think it is :whistle:

Perez 's career is not going anywhere now except maybe to Haas but that is about it He dreams of driving for Ferrari and becoming world champion seems very distant memory now. I maintain that his decision to not join Renault was a mistake on his part

Hulkenberg still has an outside chance of a decent drive if he is staying
 
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F1Brits_90

Race Winner
Perez is a perennial 2nd rater, I wouldn't put him in an F1 car any more, he's just a bank teller.
perez isn't part the elite drivers so Is a 2nd rate in that sense Ruslan but best of the available drivers. geth I looked that this grid last night & a experienced driver that is available & good enough, is in short supply as out of 20 drivers you would have Kimi Magnussen Hulkenburg Perez Grosjean technically Kyvat as options

Kimi - too old & also when you see how much Leclerc has beaten Vettel on some weekends. then motivation is at question
Magnussen - I don't know about him, he's quick qualifying 5th numerous times but something about him, puts me off
Hulkenburg - won the le mans 24 hrs but the best driver In F1 history to have never stepped on podium & very unlucky
Perez - McLaren probally cost him, wrong place wrong time. but always impressive in midfield car & a great opportunist that Pirelli tyres are his biggest strength
Grosjean - I wouldn't have In F1 in 2020 never mind a Top Team
Kyvat - I would stuck him in, but red bull don't want to admit their mistake?
 
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Ruslan

Points Scorer
Perez beat Hulkenberg 2-1 as teammates.

2014- 59- 96
2015 78-58
2016 101- 72

Perez = 238 pts
Hulkenberg = 226 pts

Not a lot in it

However Perez is a permanent midfield man and if anything his decision to stay with Force India reminds me a bit of Pierluigi Martini back in the 90's
Well, if Perez is able to match Hulkenberg, then he is hardly permanent midfield material.


Perez versus Hulkenburg

................Qual.............On Track.........Points
2014.........7-12.............7-7.................59-96
2015.........9-10.............6-7.................78-58
2016.........9-12.............8-8...............101-72

Total........25-32............21-22............238-226


Hulkenberg versus Sainz

..............Qual.............On Track............Points
2017........3-1...............1-0.....................9-6
2018.......13-8...............8-4..................69-53

Total........16-9..............9-4...................78-59


Perez versus Ocon

...............Qual.............On Track............Points
2017........13-7.............11-6...................100 - 87
2018.........5-16..............5- 9....................62- 49

Total........18-23.............16-15................162-136

And

Ricciardo vs Hulkenberg

.................Qual..............On Track..............Points
2019.........8-4..............5-2.......................22-17

So, you are probably on safe ground to make the argument that Hamilton, Verstappen and Vettel are better than Perez. The performance of Ricciardo vs Hulkenberg make the argument that he is also better than Perez. You might be able to place Leclerc and Ocon ahead of him.....but you would be hard pressed to make the argument that anyone else in the field is better than him. I don't think that the stats would support such an argument. Perez appears to be one of the ten best drivers in the field. I rate him 7th.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
If Perez was considered a top driver then the big teams would have signed him by now

At Mclaren - he was dropped because he could not match Button who even managed to beat him by more than 40 seconds with the slower strategy. They compared his performances to Magnussen and dropped him because of it

He keeps thinking he can drive for Ferrari but then Ferrari would have signed him by now if that was the case as he was once on their books so really he should be in the seat that Le Clerc has now . Clearly they did not think he was better than Raikkonen to replace him

If you are saying he is better than Hulkenberg - they've been fighting for the same drives throughout their career and usually Perez gets it because he brings in the money . The other guy who has stopped Hulkenberg progressing in my opinion is Maldonado who again had money to bring in
 

F1Brits_90

Race Winner
this was how we voted in driver of the year poll & Perez came 9th. beating Ocon, Gasly & Bottas

1 (1) - Hamilton - 318pts -13 -12 :1st:
2 (2) - Verstappen - 203pts - 13 -1 :2nd:
3 (4) - Vettel - 172pts - 12 - 1 :3rd:


4 (*)- Leclerc - 123pts - 9 - 1
5 (3) - Riccardio - 121pts - 10
6 (5) - Alonso - 109pts - 8 - 1
7 (8) - Raikkonen - 46pts - 6
8 (11) - Hulkenburg - 39pts - 6
9 (12) - Perez - 23pts - 6
10 (7) - Ocon - 22pts - 6
11 (*) - Gasly - 11pts - 3
12 (6) - Bottas - 11pts - 4
13 (*) - Magnussen - 10pts - 2
14 (*) - Stroll - 6pts - 1
15 (9) - Sainz - 2pts - 1
16 (*) - Ericsson - 1pt - 1
17 - Grosjean, Hartley, Sirotkin & Vandoorne - 0
 

rufus_mcdufus

Champion Elect
Interesting voting and not too far off. Sainz has redeemed himself since then and probably Stroll too. Bottas should be higher now and Ricciardo lower.
 

F1Brits_90

Race Winner
Interesting voting and not too far off. Sainz has redeemed himself since then and probably Stroll too. Bottas should be higher now and Ricciardo lower.
yes im intrigued to see this years poll i dont think it will be landslide victory for Lewis as it has been for last 2 years where he top every vote across the 2 years bar 2. bottas could be top 5 but there have been standout midfielders . don't know based on next 9 races but if gasly gets a point id be shocked

although interesting that i just realised only grosjean from 5 lowest 2018 scorers has a 2019 drive other 4 got dumped. we must be influential :D
 

gethinceri

Daniil Kvyat Fan. Alfa Romeo Fan.
Contributor
Don't know why you would say that....he has outperformed almost all of his teammates over the years, including Hulkenberg. If Perez is a second rater, then I assume you consider Hulkenberg 3rd rate and Sainz 4th rate.
No, I consider Hulkenberg to have been past his best when teammate with Perez and Sainz to have not found his right team (but he's also a second rater).
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Reason why Hulkenberg has not found the right team is because he does not bring money like Perez and Maldonado. That 2012 Williams should have been a regular visitor on the podium

He was denied the Mclaren drive because his sponsors don;t pay for the engines.. the only other thing I have read was he apparently signed for Ferrari but Alonso vetoed him as a teammate
 

Ruslan

Points Scorer
If Perez was considered a top driver then the big teams would have signed him by now
If Formula One had 5 to 7 teams that could win an a race in a season....like they did in the early 1980s...then Perez would be in a top team. It is only the sad (and disgraceful) situation we have now where only 2 or 3 teams can win a race in a season, that leaves so many drivers out in the cold. In the end, there are only 3-4 top drivers because there are only 3-4 top driver slots.

At Mclaren - he was dropped because he could not match Button who even managed to beat him by more than 40 seconds with the slower strategy. They compared his performances to Magnussen and dropped him because of it
Actually, I think he was fired from McLaren because he was an inflexible dick. They kind of said something at the time that he deserves a drive, just not with them. Magnussen when he arrived was clearly inferior, and has remained so throughout his career.

In the end, Button is the only teammate who has ever outperformed him.

He keeps thinking he can drive for Ferrari but then Ferrari would have signed him by now if that was the case as he was once on their books so really he should be in the seat that Le Clerc has now . Clearly they did not think he was better than Raikkonen to replace him
Leclerc is a find....and his appearance has certainly put an end to Perez' chances for a Ferrari seat. On the other hand, if Leclerc turned out to be like Gasly, who would Ferrari pick next?

If you are saying he is better than Hulkenberg - they've been fighting for the same drives throughout their career and usually Perez gets it because he brings in the money . The other guy who has stopped Hulkenberg progressing in my opinion is Maldonado who again had money to bring in
I am saying he is better than Hulkenberg because the stats say he is better than Hulkenberg. Show the stats that say otherwise? In the end Perez is 29 years olds with 9 years in F1, 170 races, 542 points, 8 podium races and 4 fastest laps. Hulkenberg is 31 years old, with 10 years in F1, 170 races, 491 points, no podiums, 1 pole position and 2 fastest laps. Hard to claim that Perez has had better drives than Hulkenberg. Their results are similar, with Perez having the edge.

Now, if you notice I don't argue about whether Russell is better than Perez or not as Bill Boddy has stated because 1) there is no stats to establish that one way or the other.....2) therefore, there is no way to establish the argument one way or the other. On the other hand, we can directly compare Perez with Hulkenberg (and Ocon).
 
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Ruslan

Points Scorer
Interesting article: Alonso 'turned down Red Bull offer to return' - report

1. Red Bull approached Alonso at Silverstone.
2. They decided to discard Gasly after the Austrian Grandprix when he got lapped.
3. Alonso gave a "resounding 'no'.
....a. But the source is a Spanish newspaper, so wondering if this part of the story is a "scoop" or a "plant."

A few questions:
1. Is this actually true?
2. This would explain why it took so long the replace Gasly...they were busy shopping.
3. Did they offer Alonso just a ride for this year, or a multi-year contract?
4. Does Alonso ever plan to return to F1, because this looked like a good opportunity to get a seat on the right team?
 

Dartman

Points Scorer
If it is true, there's no way Alonso would be in the same team as Max due to Max if not RB no1 would definitely be the favoured driver
 

F1Brits_90

Race Winner
part of it makes sense because as been discussed & we couldn't agree who but agreed they needed a experienced head to let the other development. but Alonso has been known to lie before & that would mean that they were going to bomb gasly out completely
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Ruslan LeClerc has been on Ferrari's books but he did not make his F1 debut until 2018 and every year from 2015 we keep hearing that Ferrari were considering to replace Raikkonen as Vettel's teammate and every year they stuck with Raikkonen because in their eyes there aren't drivers better than him on the grid to be a better No2 . Perez having Mexican sponsors on Ferrari's books had been considered but they still stuck with Raikkonen.

Perez gets drives because he has money, Hulkenberg can't get drives he deserves because he has no money . I should add that Perez turned down Renault before they offered the drive to Hulkenberg. Perez's reason was the team did not have leadership which is a bizarre thing to say and turn down the drive if you are trying to prove you're a top driver
 
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