Grand Prix 2019 Italian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

What? The Italian GP thread is up and the Belgian race hasn't even taken place? Well, spoiler alert, Lewis took pole in Spa and won the race at a canter, Bottas was second and Max was third.

So, on to the temple of speed. A fixture of the F1 calendar since the first World Championship season (with the exception of a moment of silliness in 1980 when they went to Imola) Monza has given us the two fastest Grand Prix in Championship history.

1971, the days when the Monza low drag spec. was to take all the wings off and just drive round slip streaming the other cars until you got to the end. No chicanes, no compulsory tyre stops, no DRS, just balls out from start to finish. Chris Amon put his Matra on pole with a lap at over 156mph. Amon has the reputation of being a very unlucky driver and this race wasn't to be any different as he only finished 6th. The final laps are stunning to watch as the cars buzz around taking and overtaking one another again and again. Peter Gethin won the race in the BRM at an average speed of a smidge under 151mph and the first 5 cars crossed the line within 0.6 seconds of one another.

A few other oddities about 1971. Emerson Fittipaldi drove a four wheel drive, gas turbine engined Lotus 56B but it wasn't a Lotus it was entered by World Wide Racing. It was the first race for motor cycling World Champion Mike Hailwood. He led at various points, eventually finishing 4th. An English driver wouldn't win again until James Hunt stood on the top step in Holland in 1975.

2003, the time Michael Schumacher stood (almost) without equal in F1. Although he was being pushed hard by Juan Pablo Montoya in the 2003 season and before the race in Monza hadn't won a race since Canada. There were some games before the race as those using Michelin tyres had to cope with a small rule change on tyre widths which allowed the Bridgestone runners to get back on terms. Schumacher and Montoya pushed each hard through the race but Michael was just too quick. Even with two pit stops for tyres Schumacher averaged 153.8 mph for the race. This at a circuit with three chicanes to "slow the cars down".

What chance a new race record in 2019? The cars are fast enough, Kimi's pole lap in 2018 was 163.8 mph . Can we avoid a safety car?

Enjoy one of the shortest races of the season (about 1 1/4 hours) at the most historic circuit on the calendar.

 

[olegg]

 

[F1Brits_90]

im still angry about spineless stewards. i would given all 9 drivers involved in that farce blanket 10 place grid drop (not 5 because 1-4 wouldve been unpunished but 5 -10 wouldve) to make an example of it. also for bringing the sport into disrepute, blocking other drivers & driving in a dangerous manner. because at the moment they made the sport a laughing stock & got a pointless slap on the wrist

if they have to at monza 2020. send Q3 drivers out 1 at a time. in old 1 lap qualifying. in reverse order of how Q2 finished

 

[Brogan]

Amazingly, despite Vettel clearly having all 4 wheels over the white line in quali, the stewards didn’t penalise him. Wonder if this had anything to do with it being the Italian GP?

Good job it wasn't Hamilton.

We would never have heard the end of it

(I don't mean from you in particular, just in general.)

 

[220]

Vettel and Bottas laps being counted denied Renault a second row lock out. 2 cars in the top 4 would have been massive for a mid field team.

 

[The Artist.....]

Vettel and Bottas laps being counted denied Renault a second row lock out. 2 cars in the top 4 would have been massive for a mid field team.

I’d forgotten about Bottas.

Even if he did get through the start finish line before the red flag (he didn’t), he would have driven through a waved yellow flag flat out, so should have faced action for that...

 

[RasputinLives]

dont want to be harsh but this is why the dangerous kerb are in. they rightfully kick up huge fuss when F3 incident happens. but then they prove why FIA have to do it. because they wont respect track limits

Did you see the Peroni crash in F3? If not go and watch it and then you tell me whether we should have raised kerbs or not just to keep track limits. Absolute horrific crash

 

[F1Brits_90]

Did you see the Peroni crash in F3? If not go and watch it and then you tell me whether we should have raised kerbs or not just to keep track limits. Absolute horrific crash

it was a horrendous crash i saw it live & delighted everyone involved was unharmed ive been a supporter of gravel. because its the lesser of 2 evils.

this is view that in this current tragic climate people may not want to hear but FIA have been back into a corner because the promoters want as many cars on track as possible. gravel was demonised so tarmac was in & the drivers dont help themselves. if they respected these actions wouldn't be needed. as proven 5 hours later sausage kerb goes rightfully what are we talking albon time being deleted in Q1 & was vettel all 4 wheels over in Q3. drivers want there cake & eat it. you see track limits at lesmos or ascari. if they wont abide by track limits then they need to be forced to

 

[Hamberg]

Vettel is a monumental bellend, Bottas is shit.

Nice to see LeClerc be able to celebrate a win.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Henry, a former british heavyweight bobing champion, commented that when in Italy you have to get a knockout to score a draw.

 

[Johnny Carwash]

Vettel making the sort of mistake that a rookie would be ashamed of.

 

[Ruslan]

Interesting race:

Leclerc: Good drive but far from perfect. With different stewarding, he would have lost this race.

Hamilton: Could not come through to the win, otherwise a good race.

Bottas: I really question the decision by Mercedes to keep him for another season. He just doesn't produce when push comes to shove.

Verstappen: The old Max is back for a second race in a row. Rosberg will probably comment on it, Verstappen will probably say that Rosberg is being like Villeneuve, and maybe Rosberg should say that Verstappen is talking a lot like Donald Trump. Anyhow, I suspect this is Verstappen's future. He will go for periods looking like one of the best drivers in F1 and suddenly look like an impetuous out-of-control kid. I think this will be his behavior throughout his career. The issue is not maturity, the issue is ego and attitude.

Vettel: Speaking of Bambi the Werewolf.....we saw the other Vettel today, although he did not entertain us with one of his radio rants about how it is all someone else's fault. He was contrite in his post-race interviews. The first step to correcting a problem is to understand where the problem lies. Maybe he is finally on that path. We shall see.

Ricciardo/Hulkenberg: Good results. Not sure why Ricciardo ended up ahead of Hulkenberg other than he just is a better driver. Renault looks to be slowly developing into a going concern, and with Ricciardo and Ocon on the team next year, I think they will be a fun team to watch.

Albon, Perez, Norris, Kvyat, Stroll: All good races from them. Kvyat should have had a top ten result as should have Stroll.

Gioninazzi: There may be a slot open on the Ferrari team in 2021, if he can prove he deserves it. So far, he had not made a very convincing argument. Good result today though.

Stewarding: I am so confused. I can see how the new stewarding approach let Leclerc get away with the wheel-to-wheel hit on Hamilton. Still, I think they should still be required to leave a car space to their side if there happens to be a car there. I am sort of mystified by that. On the other hand, I am more mystified about how the exiting of the track in front of a car within a second was not at least a 5 second penalty. Was there a little steward Ferrari favoritism going on here?

Driver of the race: probably Ricciardo as he made no mistakes and did not disappoint.

 

[The Artist.....]

it was a horrendous crash i saw it live & delighted everyone involved was unharmed ive been a supporter of gravel. because its the lesser of 2 evils.

Perone has fractured a vertebra...

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio]

Stewarding: I am so confused. I can see how the new stewarding approach let Leclerc get away with the wheel-to-wheel hit on Hamilton. Still, I think they should still be required to leave a car space to their side if there happens to be a car there. I am sort of mystified by that. On the other hand, I am more mystified about how the exiting of the track in front of a car within a second was not at least a 5 second penalty. Was there a little steward Ferrari favoritism going on here?

I think that you are making a very good point here. Let me just say that I'm glad that Leclerc won, in fairness I think that Hamilton deserved to win and so I would have been happier if Hamilton had won, but another Ferrari win is (apparently) good for the sport.

Having said that there clearly were a few issues with the stewarding. I don't have a problem with Leclerc cutting the chicane (although it must be said that in that corner you have a very clearly defined path to follow if you miss the braking point and Hamilton showed what a driver should do there when missing the corner, ie. not cutting the chicane but going straight on the escape path), I have some very serious reservations about Leclerc's defending: I think that his move at the Roggia was wrong and that he should have been punished, because Leclerc moved under braking and most importantly he pushed Hamilton out of the track. I have also some reservations about Leclerc's antics after he cut the first chicane because IMHO at Curva Grande he waved a bit too much while Hamilton was very very close, IMHO that was dangerous.

I also struggle with the black and white flag to Leclerc, if he did something wrong he should have been punished, if he did nothing wrong they shouldn't have shown him that flag. Also I think that if you have been given the black and white flag and you breach another rule you should be black flagged, and when he cut the chicane they just noted that he broke the rule: again either cutting the chicane under those circumstance is right (and I sort of beleieve that it probably is) or it's not and he should have been punished. Saying as hey did that he was a bit naughty but not punishing him despite the previous black and white flag IMHO doesn't look very logical.

Talking about the stewarding I also disagree with the penalties inflcited to Vettel and to Stroll: they both did the same mistake, IMHO they should have received the same punishment

 

[Hamberg]

Vettel did it to himself and put Stroll in that position by hitting him. That’s why Vettel’s was more severe.

 

[Hamberg]

What’s the general consensus of the stewarding today wrt LeClerc? I personally thought it was great and liked the use of the black and white flag.

 

[The Artist.....]

Hamberg I was a little uneasy with the stewarding w.r.t. Leclerc, but, I think he was allowed to get away with the same sort of things that Verstappen (or even, to a certain extent Hamilton) have previously been allowed to get away with.

The biggest problem I had with the stewarding was actually Vettel; given that he re-entered the circuit dangerously, hit another car, yet was allowed to continue in the race. Personally, I would have banned him.

 

[vintly]

Vette caused a collision, Stroll did not, so different punishments was correct - regardless of the fact that Vettel ‘started’ Stroll’s situation.

I think Leclerc was fortunate with a black and white flag, but he deserves some good fortune so fair enough.

On that basis I think the stewarding was as good as it could be. Can’t please everyone and all that.

Great race! Loved it.

 

[olegg]

It was good race.
Pitty that Verstappen and Vettel didn't participate in competition for podium positions

 

[RasputinLives]

Publius Cornelius Scipio for someone who is usually so level heard on here I'm surprised at some of those comments today. Vettels punishment was worse because clearly his incident was worse. I'm not sure how anyone can argue it wasn't. I also don't see how anyone can say Hamilton deserved it more than LeClerc today. Lewis tried to chase him down and couldn't get it done. I'm pretty sure Lewis would say the same thing.

Anyways on another point regarding Hamilton complaining about LeClerc moving in the braking zones - both myself an Titch were thinking the same thing in chat - isn't it weird how a new fast driver appears at the front and all the more experienced drivers suddenly start complaining about how hard they defend their position? We seem to have moved on from Verstappen now to LeClerc. Only seems like yesterday that Massa was holding a driver meeting about how 'dangerous' Lewis Hamilton was for doing the same thing and now it's Lewis complaining about LeClerc.

 

[Speshal]

What’s the general consensus of the stewarding today wrt LeClerc? I personally thought it was great and liked the use of the black and white flag.

I've nothing against CLeC but...

Personally, I think it was utter bullshit.

Fine, if you're going to re-introduce the black and white flag then it should mean something, it's not now a carte blanche to do some dickish moves and then say "oh it doesn't really matter" just don't do it again...

As for missing the chicane and maintaining the advantage, anyone else at any other circuit would have got a 5 second penalty.

Shit stewarding. Disappointed.