Grand Prix 2018 Hungarian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Izumi

Points Scorer
I agree that the race wasn't a classic, I fear that we'll have to disagree on Vettel and Bottas

1 Hamilton was lucky, managed the race well and his team mate was willing to humiliate himself to help him, Hamilton in my eyes is one of the luckiest man on earth

2 I don't see many issues in his driving yesterday, he was very fast, he did what he had to do but was very unlucky, the fact that he lost a position to Bottas due to a problem with a wheel no locking properly cannot be his fault. I think that without that problem he could have won the race. Now coming to your remarks: regarding the backmarkers I remember him complaining (mildly) when for about one and a half lap Ocon held him up, costing him about 2 seconds if I remember correctly: in fairness I think that he had a point. Ocon is a great driver but someone should explain to him that when you go to any lenghts to please someone there is the risk that in the process you overdo it, and IMHO Ocon is on the edge on that respect, helping his employer (not his team, that is different) is one thing, going too far quite another. Anyway, Vettel and no chance to pass Bottas, he couldn't get in his slipstream even with the DRS open, Bottas did everything that could be done to block him. And consider that whereas Vettel had everything to lose Bottas had nothing to lose. Also Vettel knew that if he got very close he would risk destroying his tyres. On top of that whenever Vettel gets anywhere near a Mercedes he gets some sort of punishment, whereas the Mercedes drivers can take a very liberal approach to hard racing the Ferraris. All Vettel could do was wait for Bottas' rear tyres to deteriorate and try a move, and that's what he did. Regarding his move on Bottas I don't see what he could have done differently, he had to be aggressive because Bottas was being very aggressive and he had to lose the door. I'm not sure that this was a racing incident, it looked to me as if Bottas had some score to settle with Vettel, I wouldn't say that it was deliberate but Bottas took a punt fully knowing that if it go wrong it would have been good for his team

3 Kimi did ok, he was given a strategy to force Mercedes to react and bring Bottas out of the question and that's what happened, pity Ferrari screwed Vettel's pit stop. In clean air Vettel was faster than Kimi (Vettel did his fastest lap on lap 70, 1:20.056, a couple of tenths faster than Kimi's best, which happened significantly earlier on lap 55 (with fresher tyres). In a sense Kimi cathcing up Vettel made him look much faster than he really was, but Vettel was slow because he was being blocked by Bottas

4 I wouldn't call Bottas a good soldier, yesterday he looked more like someone desperate to me bcause something doesn't quite stack up in Bottas race. After his pit stop he was doing 1:23s, as soon as Vettel was behind him he started doing 1:21.5, why? I'm sure that the pit wall gave him some sort of engine boost but that doesn't account for 1 and a half second. So maybe he was "waiting" for Vettel to catch him in order to slow him down. He then did all he could to hold up Vettel, and that's fine with me, but his coming together with Vettel doesn't really look like just any other racing accident, and that is because he was behind Vettel's car, not beside him, he did a kamikaze move and got away with it, not even a reprimand, which is rather inconsistent if you consider that in France Vettel was punished (and vilified) for something far less serious. He then tried to resist to Ricciardo despite the fact that with his front wing damaged he didn't have much grip at the front and so could not brake late. The 10 second penalty looks farcical to me, on the one hand IMHO if rule consistency is something to be taken into account he should have been punished for hitting Vettel, on the other 10 seconds was a very lenient penalty. But there you go, this is no longer a matter of double standards every now and then, this is stating to look like an accepted trend. I wonder what James Allison has to say about Bottas's driving into Vettel after his comments on Kimi's mistake a few races back

5 championship is over, Hamilton has been very lucky, Vettel made too many mistakes and the powers that be are totally biased in favour of Mercedes

6 Red Bull are a disgrace, Horner's request for an apology by Renault was proposterous

7 I think that Gasly is good but not as good as Leclerc, and it's a shame that Alonso (and Ricciardo) cannot join either Ferrari or Mercedes
Apart assertion regarding championship status, I like your race assessment. It is going to be difficult and for some of us nerve wrecking, but it's not over until it's over. Could be 2012 all over again. (Sorry for borrowing Brexit slogan.)
 

Ruslan

Points Scorer
6 Red Bull are a disgrace, Horner's request for an apology by Renault was proposterous

7 I think that Gasly is good but not as good as Leclerc, and it's a shame that Alonso (and Ricciardo) cannot join either Ferrari or Mercedes
I'll skip the parts we disagree on ;)

Apparently Verstappen restated his comments in a post-race interview: GPGuide | News - Verstappen slams 'sh-t' Renault engine

Christian Horner seems like one of the nicer guys out there.....except he seems to spoil his drivers. These are kids in the 20s. Horner, of course, is simply encouraging this talk and saying the same thing himself.

I don't know how to compare Gasly with Leclerc.....but I to am more excited about Leclerc.
 
Apparently Verstappen restated his comments in a post-race interview: GPGuide | News - Verstappen slams 'sh-t' Renault engine

Christian Horner seems like one of the nicer guys out there.....except he seems to spoil his drivers. These are kids in the 20s. Horner, of course, is simply encouraging this talk and saying the same thing himself.
Everybody at Red Bull seem to be keen on tarnishing Renault, they have done that for years, maybe Max has learned from them, when they win it's their merit, when they lose it's Renault's fault, it has been going on for years. And Renault was forced by regulation to supply their PUs to them, I bet at Renault they can't wait for the 2019 and no longer having to work with such people

Horner seems to be one of the most reasonable at RBR, but the problem is that he's not the boss and has to take some very awkward positions at times to please Marko and Mateschitz.
 

Izumi

Points Scorer
Everybody at Red Bull seem to be keen on tarnishing Renault, they have done that for years, maybe Max has learned from them, when they win it's their merit, when they lose it's Renault's fault, it has been going on for years. And Renault was forced by regulation to supply their PUs to them, I bet at Renault they can't wait for the 2019 and no longer having to work with such people

Horner seems to be one of the most reasonable at RBR, but the problem is that he's not the boss and has to take some very awkward positions at times to please Marko and Mateschitz.
Abiteboul: We stopped reading what Horner says since 2015
 

RasputinLives

Not dead
Contributor
Once again it's time for Sky's crazy unexplainable driver ratings.

Hungarian GP driver ratings

A 7 for Bottas due to the end incidents despite the fact he played the perfect spoiler on less than perfect strategy in order to give Lewis a comfy race is just down right insulting.
 

marksawatsky

Podium Finisher
Contributor
This has been a great and interesting season so far and I expect it to keep going that way. Lewis has won on some tracks where even I, as a Lewis fan, predicted that he would not win and has lost on others that I thought would be an easy win. The Ferrari is the better car now and Vettel is an amazing driver so I expect a strong comeback for the last half of the season. I don't think Lewis will win the WDC but I still hope he does
 

Izumi

Points Scorer
My apology if this was already discussed, and I haven't seen it. Bottas incurred post-race penalties (10 sec was added to his race time - uhh, pain) and 2 points (just 2, really?) to his rap sheet for hitting DR.

Bottas probably was not investigated for incident involving Vettel. (Scanning FiA's info., I didn't see it.) Vettel asserted it was a racing incident, however more suspicious observers have somewhat different ideas about the same subject, and Bottas is not coming out of it smelling refreshingly clean.
 

RasputinLives

Not dead
Contributor
I think it's all a little harsh on Bottas. I can't see what he could have done different in the first incident (if anything Vettel came across him) and the second incident was down to the damage from the first incident.
 

RasputinLives

Not dead
Contributor
Interesting read from Joyleon. On the day Martin Brundle had the exact opposite view so will be interested to read his take on it.

I still think Bottas is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If the biggest criticism is that he shouldn't have attempted to repass Vettel then it is in stark contrast to Bahrain when he was critisied for not overtaking him. He was put in a very difficult position to do a job for Merc and I think he did what he needed too.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
Seriously, this was never an issue when cars would explode and the driver seriously injured if they touched each other.

What they need to fit is some sort of electronic touch pads all over the car so that if they bump at anything above a certain G level then the car just grinds to a halt. That way they wouldn't be tempted to play bumper cars anymore. Then we wouldn't have the stewards having to debate what is, or isn't a race incident.

I'm so bored of the constant debate (from pundits, not on here btw) surrounding who bumped who and why and what was the underlying motivation. Either they stop hitting each other or they stop being penalised for it. At least in the BTCC the attitude is 'rubbing is racing'

Sorry, feeling very grumpy today.
 

Angel

🧸 Smile, it might never happen.
Contributor
Martin Brundle did admit he blamed Vettel for the incident at first during the race, I assume he's changed his mind now, though I haven't read his column so I can't say for sure.

Maybe Bottas was just trying to pay Vettel back for when they had that incident at the start of the race in France. Who knows what was in his mind, well Bottas does obviously, but we sure don't. It's all speculation on our parts isn't it?

cider_and_toast is right, there should be something to deter cars banging into one another like it all the time. The cars are safe enough these days it's not that big of a deal like it used to be which is as it should be, but it's also F1 not Demolition Derby!
 

olegg

Race Winner
Bottas could not creating a comfortable advantage before Vettel.
So he was defending his position 25 laps against Vettel who was on more new and faster tyres.
May be Valteri could be in other situation if had first pit later like Vettel or had second pit like Raikkonen.
But this is unlikely, given its pace in the first segment.
In any case, the assumptions that Bottas purposely was blocking or
even more specially hit to Vettel to help Hamilton are nonsense.
The proof is that by the time of the incident, Hamilton's advantage was so great
that there was no point in risking anything for Bottas.
 

Ruslan

Points Scorer
My apology if this was already discussed, and I haven't seen it. Bottas incurred post-race penalties (10 sec was added to his race time - uhh, pain) and 2 points (just 2, really?) to his rap sheet for hitting DR.

Bottas probably was not investigated for incident involving Vettel. (Scanning FiA's info., I didn't see it.) Vettel asserted it was a racing incident, however more suspicious observers have somewhat different ideas about the same subject, and Bottas is not coming out of it smelling refreshingly clean.
Actually, I think this is reasonable.
 
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