Grand Prix 2016 Canadian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Battle for the drivers championship recommenced in Monaco and next we are off to one of Lewis Hamilton's favourite and most productive races at the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve in Montreal. Only Michael Schumacher has won more races at this track than Lewis.

But wait, Red Bull are having a resurgence and back in 2014 Daniel Ricciardo recorded his maiden win. Only kidding, expect this to be a battle royal between the two Mercedes drivers for both pole and the race win. Lewis has exorcised some demons after Monaco and Nico looked to be back to the sort of form he had at the start of the 2015 season.

Red Bull are taking the fight to be "best of the rest" to Ferrari and with the upgraded Renault engine might even have gone past the Scuderia. Canada has not been a happy hunting ground for either Vettel or Raikkonen and it will be very interesting to see how the red cars stack up against the fizzy drink machines. What money on Max Verstappen have some sort of interaction with the Wall of Champions at least once during the weekend.

Williams must hope that Canada will better suit their cars than Monaco did. Force India are pushing them to be next best after the big three and will be boosted by Sergio Perez's podium in the principality. Toro Rosso can certainly mix it with Williams and Force India but last years Ferrari engine might not have quite enough puff to allow them to keep up on the faster sections.

McLaren look to be getting some form back with both cars scoring points in Monaco. Haas and Renault will be next up. Jolyon Palmer will have to get a wiggle on or I suspect he might well be out of a driver at some point in the near future.

Last, and probably least, Sauber and Manor will be at the back. After the fun between the two Sauber drivers in Monte Carlo I expect them to be a little more circumspect in Canada. Over at Manor, Pascal Wehrlein needs to up his game against Rio Haryanto if he wants a better drive for next year.

Canada often gives us a fun race, I wonder what we will get this year?

 

[Spinodontosaurus]

I'm not insinuating anything, don't put words in my mouth. Furthermore the 2014 incident is only similar, it is not exactly the same. Whether of not you think the 2016 incident is ok you still need to acknowledge the differences between the two incidents.

In 2014 Rosberg was ahead throughout the corner, squeezed Hamilton on the exit and forced Hamilton to yield. There is nothing wrong with this move nor with the vast majority of similar moves Hamilton has done to Rosberg in the past.
In 2016 however Rosberg was marginally ahead when Hamilton, who completely misses the apex by around a cars width, runs into him causing Rosberg to drift wide and off the circuit. This is very similar to his move in Austin 2015 where he once again made contact with Rosberg whilst the latter was ahead and forced him off the circuit.

The point at which the driver on the outside is entitled to some space is a massive grey area, and Hamilton is exploiting it more than probably anyone else. Even his most benign squeezes have been very aggressive and start wading into this grey area. I simply feel on both this occasion and Austin 2015 he has gone beyond that grey area.

 

[KekeTheKing]

I'm not insinuating anything

Sorry, that part wasn't directed towards you.

In 2014 Rosberg was ahead throughout the corner

Wrong. Hamilton was ahead and then Rosberg dove deep into the corner. This year Nico was actually behind. And as I said earlier, nobody really thought much of it in 2014.

Austin last year was pretty straightforward as well. Hamilton took the corner and never deviated from his line, Rosberg simply ran out of road for the line he was on.

 

[teabagyokel]

Austin last year was pretty straightforward as well.

Yes, it was. Hamilton ran him out of road. Clear as day.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Happens to one or more drivers in the first corner of every race. Going around the outside of a slow first corner (unlike Barca) is a losing proposition.

Alonso tried the same thing on Hamilton at Canada 2007 and threw away his race.

 

[vintly]

If you try and go round the outside, and the chap on the inside edges you out of road, then it's tough-titty-toenails - you lose the corner. Rosberg knows that, which is why he won't / can't whine about it. Unless the chap on the inside changes direction to push you out then he's in the clear.

 

[Lewywo4]

He hasn't rammed anyone off the road.

In 2014 the same exact scenario played out when Nico drove deep into T1 leaving Lewis out to dry..

It surely looks that way to me Keke!

 

[cider_and_toast]

If you try and go round the outside, and the chap on the inside edges you out of road, then it's tough-titty-toenails - you lose the corner. Rosberg knows that, which is why he won't / can't whine about it. Unless the chap on the inside changes direction to push you out then he's in the clear.

Yeah, exactly as happaned at Spa a few years back where Rosberg tried a move around the outside and lost the corner.

 

[Lewywo4]

Keke......This was supposed to be included in my previous post. Rosberg did as you said, left Lewis out to dry.

 

[Lewywo4]

Happens to one or more drivers in the first corner of every race. Going around the outside of a slow first corner (unlike Barca) is a losing proposition..

Paul DiResta seems to agree with you Keke when he said, " He didn't know how Rosberg was going to do that."

 

[Galahad]

Montreal is terrific. Back to earth for Red Bull, though I wouldn't be surprised if they're ahead of Williams. I will if they're quicker than Ferrari...

As for the title, my guess is that Hamilton will be championship leader leaving Silverstone and ease away comfortably from there.

I should have put my money where my mouth is this time

 

[Il_leone]

You can't really go outside in the first corner at Canada it requires the other guy to give space as well as you being precise steering into turn 2

The move was not on

 

[Spinodontosaurus]

Drivers have made moves stick around the outside before, you simply need to get yourself slightly ahead of the driver on the inside and they will have no choice but to leave you room (although they could choose to give you room anyway even if you aren't ahead). Massa on Ericsson in 2015 is a great example:

You can't just say "that was his line, he didn't deviate from it so everything is ok", because that doesn't address whether he was entitled to take that line in the first place. If Rosberg was half a car length ahead and Hamilton tried that trick he would be getting hit with a pretty severe penalty and talking to from the team, with good reason. If Hamilton was half a car length ahead then he would unquestionably be within his rights to take his line, and it would be up to Rosberg to take action to avoid making contact.

There is a grey area when the two cars are near perfectly level - when is the exact point the driver on the outside is entitled to space? Hamilton is using that grey area to repeatedly bully Rosberg off the circuit, banking on Rosberg backing out to avoid an incident that the pair would share roughly 50% of the blame for. I don't have a problem with the majority of these moves, although I recognise that many of them are very aggressive. Hungary 2014 for instance involved Hamilton completely changing his line mid corner to force Rosberg onto the grass.
There are however two incidents I take issue with - Canada 2016 and Austin 2015. In both cases Rosberg on the outside was fractionally ahead, only for Hamilton to completely ignore the apex and run into Rosberg, forcing the latter off the circuit. The relative positions of the cars (Rosberg being fractionally ahead), combined with Hamilton not even attempting to make the apex and the fact that there was actual contact are the specific things I take issue with and make me feel Hamilton overstepped the mark on both occasions. They are also things that clearly separate these two incidents from the majority of other similar incidents between these two, so merely pointing to those other incidents and saying they were fine doesn't actually mean anything.

 

[KekeTheKing]

There are however two incidents I take issue with - Canada 2016 and Austin 2015. In both cases Rosberg on the outside was fractionally ahead

In Austin, Lewis was clearly ahead. In Montreal they were dead even if anything. Rosberg was definitely not ahead.

I don't think I've heard anybody in the paddock condemn either maneuver. Hard but fair is the dominant opinion, including Nico's.

 

[Spinodontosaurus]

Rosberg was definitely ahead at the point of contact in both cases, albeit what must have only been by an inch or two. That's why it's a grey area, although he was ahead it was by such a small margin that they were still pretty much equal. So I understand people being fine with the move, even if I think it was a touch over the edge.

 

[Kewee]

Spinodontosaurus ..... I've taken a while to enter this discussion but I support KekeTheKing 100% on this. Turn one at Canada and the following turn two are so close the driver that enters turn one on the inside dictates the line through both corners. Many drivers have tried to go round the outside at turn one, including Hamilton in 2014 and Alonso in 2007, the result was the same in both cases, they were forced wide just as Rosberg was. Hamilton didn't ram into Rosberg as you stated, they touched wheels, nothing more. The stewards didn't even open an investigation into the incident, you seem to have missed that.
KekeTheKing was also absolutely right regarding Texas, Hamilton was clearly in front, no doubt.

 

[Dartman]

Whilst on cold tyres and the actual set up doesn't quite work, trying to overtake on the outside is fraught with danger at the start of any race, all cars will tend to drift wide, should you be on the outside you may be touched by cars on the inside. The outside car may well shout about being pushed off but there is no guarantee that the outside car could actually stay on the track and its natural trajectory will take it over the track limits, that is one of the reasons that very few actions are taken on first and second corner incidents unless there is a kami kazi lunge, there wasn't in this case.

 

[Bill Boddy]

The rule is that if the cars are level, which in this case they were, then both drivers have to leave room on the circuit for the other. If that means lifting off to keep to a tighter line than they would like then they still have to do it.

Hamilton did not leave that space and so should have yielded the place to Rosberg at the very least.

 

[Dartman]

Lifting off half way round the bend at a race start causes multiple incidents all the way down the pack, there was no guarantee that Rosberg could have held the track, it is very easy to make a move that looks like an overtake but actually with no chance of a completion.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Whether or not Rosberg could have held the corner is immaterial, he wasn't given the space to which he was entitled. Hamilton should only have moved across if Rosberg had finished up taking a wider line.

 

[Kewee]

It was the first corner of a GP guys, there's often wheel contact, rubbing and bumping as a result of taking lines into the first turn that a driver won't use again during the race. The first corner is a free-for-all and the stewards are far more lenient until they clear the first turn.