Grand Prix 2015 Monaco Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

There is something - indeed, almost everything - different about the Monaco Grand Prix. Free practice will take place on Thursday, and F1 will take Friday off. The race will be 40km shorter despite having more laps than any other Grand Prix, and its winners will jump out of the car straight to the 'podium', which will be made up, simply, of a red carpet. Most strikingly, Bernie Ecclestone does not ask for a fee from the organisers in order to include the Grand Prix in his Championship.

The track is old: it has scarcely changed since 1929. The building of the Ranier III Swimming Stadium in 1972 still represents the biggest change that has ever been made to the course. It is very slow by Formula One standards - pole laps frequently average less than 100mph, and the shortening of the distance does not prevent the winning time pushing over one and three-quarter hours even when the red flag has not been thrown. Some of that is also because the Safety Car is so much more likely to appear.

The Safety Car doesn't prevent overtaking in Monaco too much more than the layout itself does - with the pole sitter having won every dry Grand Prix there since 2004, with 2008 standing as the only wet event in that period, won by Lewis Hamilton from third having planted the wall at exactly the right moment! Track position is vital; an undercut is difficult to pull off, and passing someone on dodgy tyres is staggeringly hard. Jenson Button and Fernando Alonso found in 2011 that the only overtaking that occurs in Monaco is when they were overtaken by events.

Winning at Monaco is an interesting achievement. It can certainly underline your reputation as a great (Senna's 6, Schumacher's 5 and Prost's 4), although there are some conspicuous absentees (Clark, Piquet, Mansell). Some find a groove there that they don't maintain elsewhere (Webber, Coulthard, Trintignant), and some have their solitary moment in the sun there (Trulli, Panis, Beltoise). Either way, those that win at Monaco will tell you it is the best circuit on the calendar to win on. Graham Hill's legend will always be founded upon his achievements here.

Who will be the 2015 winner? Following on from Catalan victory, Nico Rosberg will be heartened by his own form in the principality, having won dominantly in each of the last two years. He'll also enjoy that Monaco has never served as a favoured circuit to his team-mate Hamilton (whose only win came courtesy of said lucky walling, and has not finished ahead of a team-mate who actually completed the distance otherwise), and has certainly not favoured Ferrari (who have only won there 8 times from their 61 attempts, and have not taken a victory there since 2001). Although the differences at Monaco are often exaggerated, sometimes constructors do find the circuit to their liking if they focus more on aerodynamics than power, which suggests that this may be Red Bull's best chance to challenge Williams this season.

However, predicting what might happen on a Monaco race day is often a fools' game. It could well be a tedious procession, but it could well be full of drama - a good position can often be thrown into the ubiquitous Armco, the lack of new engines for this circuit could lead to one going pop or a frustrated move down at the Grand Hotel could lead to a front-wing buckling. Last year, lest we forget, Jules Bianchi achieved his one-and-only points finish in Formula One - the only points for the new-for-2010 teams in 5 years of trying. There have been many tedious processions here, but there has been 1970, 1982, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 1997, 2004, 2008 and 2011 too. Lets hope to add 2015 to that illustrious list.
 
I hope your right FB and I think you will be. Lewis has become a driver without any weaknesses and is a pleasure to follow and watch. Even the way he handled himself at Monaco after what must have been a gut wrenching result for him was mighty impressive. I took a long time to warm to Hamilton but he really does impress in every way now, including his off-track interviews.
 
I will never understand the hatred/ire directed at rookies - they do fantastic all weekend, several races in a row, then make one error in judgement, and suddenly they're worthless and annoying and people don't think they deserve to be racing in F1. I suppose the haters were always experts and knew everything from the moment they sprang forth, fully formed, as an adult, from the wombs of their mothers? If the haters think they can do better, I'd like them to go get a drive and prove it. I'll be the most vocal fan the haters will have if they even make it as far as Indy or GP2, no joke.
 
A bit strong there Dash Racing, I don't recall coming even close to showing hatred or suggesting any rookie is worthless. To be completely clear I personally believe rookies are bought into F1 too soon, it would cause them no harm at all to spend a little longer in a feeder series so as they're a more complete package when they step up to the next level.
 
Particularly in the case of Verstappen he's built built up in the media as some sort of wunderkind, much like Hamilton was I guess, and it becomes tiresome fairly quickly and people tend to jump on errors as some sort of backlash. Yes he's good, but so is Sainz who has been largely ignored because he's not 17. The expectations on Max himself are high too. I just wish there wasn't this hailing of the new messiah, but I guess it's only natural and people like reading about it.
 
My apologies, Kewee, it's not entirely directed at you, I'm just highly frustrated with the large number of people in various places online, and in the media, who've been griping about Verstappen's crash.
 
Not intending to de-value the WDC in any way at all, I just find it very unfortunate when a race result is turned inside out by a rookie drivers error and even more unfortunate if that same error impacts on the result of the World Championship.
Not having a pop at you Kewee, just seems that the majority always have an excuse to take away a victory whether it be a single win or a WDC - it is a funny old world in F1, full of missed -calls, ineptitude, luck and bad luck, - it would seem it isn't enough to be a stunning driver, but, then it is a team sport - so only as good as your weakest link, it would seem!
 
Thanks Dash Racing
Thanks Jen

I really wasn't intending to upset anyone, there are so many contributors to success and failure, especially in F1, I guess I just really felt for Hamilton, he had been flawless right up to his team failing him, he really deserved to win that one. Oh well, he'll bounce back I'm sure.

Nite Nite everyone. :yawn: :sleeping:
 
James Allen had this to say on the situation:

He felt that his tyres would be a problem after the restart and did not want to be vulnerable, if the cars behind him made a switch. Initially when he made the request to stop, the team told him to stay out, but then they changed the decision at the last moment, to bring him in.

To make a stop at racing speeds in Monaco you need a gap of 22 seconds, that reduces to under 15 seconds under a Safety Car, as the cars on track are travelling more slowly.

As Hamilton approached Rascasse and the point of no return on coming into the pits, he lost another two or three crucial seconds – the team should have seen from the “Dead Reckoning” system that the gap was too marginal to stop safely, yet in a split second yes or no decision, they went the wrong way; he was allowed to pit and this was where the error occurred.

On fresh supersofts after the restart he would have pulled away and won by probably 30 seconds. His part in motivating the decision to stop on Lap 65 should not be underestimated, it certainly seems to have influenced the strategists, but the strategy team has to make the final call and at the decisive moment they lost sight of the real gap and the fact that the Safety Car with Hamilton behind it was travelling more slowly than the target lap times the cars must drive at during a Safety Car period, making the maths horrendously complicated.

It would definitely seem that Hamilton played a part in his own downfall however, once the team reversed the decision it took it out of the drivers hands and into that of the teams strategists. Just because you ask your dentist to remove a tooth doesn't mean you are at fault if the dentist takes the wrong tooth out. The ironic thing is that Mephistopheles was right when he posted about Hamilton relying on advice from the pit wall more than some other drivers. He has received a lot of criticism for this in the past (Hamilton that is, not Meph). If you think back to Hamilton v Button at McLaren, it was always assumed that Button made calls and that Hamilton reacted to calls. If this is the actual case or not we don't know because we only see and hear the things that FOM TV let us see / hear but that is certainly the impression we had. In this instance the initial call to pit came from Hamilton. It would seem that had he not made that initial call, the team wouldn't have called him in.
 
It's been posted several times already.

Hamilton saw the pit crew standing in the pit lane on the big screen and assumed Rosberg and Vettel had pitted.
The team never stated they had not.
 
Yeah, Allen talks about Hamilton monitoring the race using the screens around the circuit. I left the bit out where he also suggests that maybe Hamilton wanted to utterly dominate the race and had the pit stop call worked he would have pulled away and finished some 30 seconds ahead of second place in those few short laps. I think that James Allen is implying that the call to stop had little to do with Rosberg and Vettel pitting. He's putting a different spin on it.

Either way, only the team had all the facts and could give a go or no go. That part of the GBBU (*great big balls up) remains unchanged.
 
I have never said that Hamilton was totally at fault I have simply stated that he had his role to play in the situation, the whole thing was a cock up, and yet most posters thought it best to give me the two fingers rather than listen or accept that I may have made a valid point, they ridiculed me for being correct and not one of them has bothered to say okay Meph you were right for once in your piteous life..
 
Also if Hamilton hadn't had to give way to the Sauber going past him when trying to leave his pit box he might've got away with it. That was maybe 0.5-1 second wasted. Still too close for comfort though.
 
My question is this:

If Hamilton initiated the pit stop discussion because he saw the crew in the lane, why were the crew in the lane anyway? The timing doesn't seem to add up. It is my understanding that the big screens show what we see at home. If that is the case then that line of thinking that Hamilton reacted to what he saw on the big screen doesn't seem to fit.

It just seems like a colossal cock up that cost a driver a race victory. Many drivers and teams have done this in the past and they will do it again in the future.

With Hamilton being such a big Senna fan surely he should have thought back to '92 at Monaco. Track position is king in Monte Carlo.

Well done Rosberg on being ready to take the victory. You can't luck into three consecutive wins, you have to have the skills as well.
 
If Hamilton initiated the pit stop discussion because he saw the crew in the lane, why were the crew in the lane anyway? The timing doesn't seem to add up.

They did show Mercedes in the pitlane as soon as the VSC was applied, which was about half a lap or more before Hamilton's infamous stop. He could realistically have been by the big screen at Casino Square at that moment.
 
I reckon it is standard practice that teams head out of the garage as soon as Safety Cars are deployed, just in case their driver ducks in. Although it shouldn't be!
 
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