Grand Prix 2013 Brazilian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

It all comes down to the final race, sort of. There is no ‘versus’ this year, in terms of the WDC or the WCC – RBR have them both in the bag.

Alonso is safely second in the driver’s championship and, realistically, third place will go to either Hamilton or Webber – with Rosberg as a long shot if Hamilton and Webber fail to finish. Mark Webber usually excels here, and as this is his last race in F1, he may decide to go out in a blaze of glory and capitalise on Hamilton’s lack of luck in Brazil.

Second place in the WCC is as equally exciting, with Mercedes and Ferrari contending for the honour and cash. On paper, it should be Mercedes with two strong drivers; however, Massa sometimes does well at his home track, winning in 2006 and 2008, and may yet be inclined to pull his finger out again for his home fans!

Rumour has that the circuit is one of the most demanding for the drivers, and that it is loved by teams and fans alike but is that enough to create an exciting race when there is sod all at stake except for individual drivers who are still looking for next year’s seat?

Interlagos has been part of the F1 circus for 40 years, becoming a permanent fixture in 1990 and has been the venue for many deciding battles – sadly, not so this year – but it could yet throw up a stonking race.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Lewis Hamilton must think his arse is nailed to that fourth place in the championship....

 

[Hamberg]

Nice analysis of the Hammy Bottas crash. Bottas had more than enough room and could of been wider, and Hammy didn't appear to check his mirrors despite moving over to the racing line BUT leaving enough room. They touched. Racing incident IMO. Bottas could of avoided it but so could Hammy.

Agreed. I think Davidson had a point about the mirrors but as Hamilton said post race he wasn't expecting a backmarker to try and overtake him which is why he didn't look. Another fucking example of DRS piece of shit.

It's nice the stewards saw fit to make a very speedy decision for once though considering they have waited until after the race and to interview both drivers in practically every other incident like that this season.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Lewis moved over on Bottas anyone with eyes could see that...

 

[Greenlantern101]

do we need a Bottas Lewis thread. IMFAO.

 

[F1ang-o]

On Sky...re the Bottas/Hamilton drive through.....Ant has just pointed out that Bottas had space to his right....he had no need to be that close to LH.
He also pointed out that LH did not look into his mirror to check where the backmarker VB was..... but LH did give VB a car's width & Bottas had track space to his right....
IMO a racing incident ....not a drive through.
LH got punted out of this race last year by Hulk...did NH get a drive through...did he heck!

 

[Fenderman]

Antony Davidson made a good point about back markers being able to use DRS to unlap themselves. That was bad enough. Something that hasn't been said (on air) is that even if Bottas had enough room going into the corner he had no chance of pulling off the move . The only way to have made that attack a success would have been to stay behind Hamilton, maintain the wider entry and cut to the inside to overtake on the inside on the exit. Every experienced racing driver knows that a wide entry leads to a tighter exit which Bottas was well placed to make had he timed it correctly. In addition, Hamilton's trajectory was not a sudden swerve so Bottas should have had the awareness to use the space he had at his disposal in the full knowledge that the gap was shrinking.

If stewards are going to continue to hand out penalties for racing incidents like that 2014 will be just as annoying as this season leaving an equally sour taste in the mouth race after race.

 

[Plutus]

Who the fuck cares about Massa leaving Ferrari. He has underperformed for most of the time since 2010, he had the pleasure of driving for the team this season only because Webber had no interest in moving there for this season. They have been trying to get their hands on plenty of other drivers.

Massa has been and still is extremely lucky to remain in Formula 1 if you ask me. Anyone else with those performances would have been out by now.

 

[Hamberg]

Antony Davidson made a good point about back markers being able to use DRS to unlap themselves. That was bad enough. Something that hasn't been said (on air) is that even if Bottas had enough room going into the corner he had no chance of pulling the mpve off. The only way to have made that attack a success would have been to stay behind Hamilton, maintain the wider entry and cut to the inside to overtake on the inside on the exit. Every experienced racing driver knows that a wide entry leads to a tighter exit which Bottas was well placed to make had he timed it correctly. In addition, Hamilton's trajectory was not a sudden swerve so Bottas should have had the awareness to use the space he had at his disposal in the full knowledge that the gap was shrinking.

If stewards are going to continue to hand out penalties for racing incidents like that 2014 will be just as annoying as this season leaving an equally sour taste in the mouth race after race.

I made a point in chat that an experience driver would have yielded (except Webber maybe). Beat me to it on the DRS!

 

[FB]

I should apologise for not entertaining you with my sparkling wit and repartee in Chat but my landlord arrived just as the warm up lap started so I had to pause it. 9 in row - unbelievable. Vettel is good but not that good which leads me to the conclusion that his team mate and the cars supplied by the other teams to their drivers must be shit.

Button 4th - woop de do but Brundle made him his driver of the day.

 

[Hamberg]

Who the f*** cares about Massa leaving Ferrari. He has underperformed for most of the time since 2010, he had the pleasure of driving for the team this season only because Webber had no interest in moving there for this season. They have been trying to get their hands on plenty of other drivers.

Massa has been and still is extremely lucky to remain in Formula 1 if you ask me. Anyone else with those performances would have been out by now.

You're a Webber fan and you're slamming Massa for underperforming?

 

[Incubus]

What I found really infuriating about the incident... was that yet again, and just as we saw with Perez's delamination in Korea, was the extreme frailty of the Pirelli whenever it receives any kind of lateral impact anywhere near the rim.

We saw plenty of instances of rear wheel contact down the years. Now the mildest touch causes instant delamination.

I think it wouldn't even have been a race incident if that tyre hadn't delaminated.

 

[Plutus]

Antony Davidson made a good point about back markers being able to use DRS to unlap themselves. That was bad enough. Something that hasn't been said (on air) is that even if Bottas had enough room going into the corner he had no chance of pulling off the move . The only way to have made that attack a success would have been to stay behind Hamilton, maintain the wider entry and cut to the inside to overtake on the inside on the exit. Every experienced racing driver knows that a wide entry leads to a tighter exit which Bottas was well placed to make had he timed it correctly. In addition, Hamilton's trajectory was not a sudden swerve so Bottas should have had the awareness to use the space he had at his disposal in the full knowledge that the gap was shrinking.

It is also Hamiltons duty to keep a decent gap to the drive he is fighting. Bottas couldn't have known that he hadn't been looking into his mirrors.
There is no reason to move if someone is fighting you as you have the right to stay in your positon. The driver making the move therefore takes (full) responsibility if things do go wrong. Mainly he has to be aware of the situation arising as he is the one creating it.

 

[Hamberg]

It is also Hamiltons duty to keep a decent gap to the drive he is fighting.

He did!

 

[Hamberg]

do we need a Bottas Lewis thread. IMFAO.

It will be an interesting evening meal for the Wolff's!

 

[Jen]

Shouldn't that be 'wolves'?

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

Even if Hamilton was in the wrong, which I don't think he was, the fact he got a drive-through despite his race being severely curtailed seemed harsh to me, as there have been other incidents where the loss of places has been deemed penalty enough.

 

[Plutus]

You're a Webber fan and you're slamming Massa for underperforming?

Yes. Is there a need for me to rant about Webber at this point, no. He is leaving Formula 1, not moving to a different team. He has won several races in the past few years, he has underperformed at times but nowhere near as bad as Massa. Webber has finished races and consistently scored points, shown his class at races like Monaco.

With the exception of this season, which is his last anyway, he has always achieved 50% or more points of Vettels total. Massa is I think in at about 30%- 40% of Alonso since 2011.

He did!

No he didn't, otherwise he wouldn't of collided.

 

[Incubus]

extreme frailty of the Pirelli whenever it receives any kind of lateral impact anywhere near the rim.
.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Hmm.... I'm not sure that came out the way I intended it there.

 

[FB]

Did it really make that much difference to Hamilton's race? Without the drive through he might have finished a place or two higher but so what?

 

[Hamberg]

Okay re Bottas/Hamilton - the official regulations:
20.3 More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.

He moved back onto the racing line and left more than a cars width at the time of the collision.

20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his.

So Bottas did have the significant portion ahead but Hamilton didn't use the full width of the track, he used what was permitted in 20.3

20.5 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.

He didn't crowd him beyond the edge of the track but was it an abnormal change of direction? Seemed like a steady change in one to me.