Grand Prix 2013 Belgian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

After a drawn-out summer break, where the drivers & their WAGs will have turned themselves orange, Adrian Newey et al will have flouted the factory shutdown rule, and Fernando Alonso will have groomed his frankly excellent beard/moustache combo, Formula 1 returns to the majestic, wonderful, brilliant, exciting, thrilling, fantastic Spa-Francorchamps circuit in Belgium for the Belgian Grand Prix. The longest circuit on the calendar (7.004 km, if you're interested) is packed full of character, from the tight La Source at the beginning of the lap, the (unfortunately) flat-out Eau Rouge, the double-apexed Pouhon corner and the terrifying Blachimont, all set in the middle of the forest with its own micro-climate. There was doubt a couple of years ago about the race's place on the calendar, but thankfully these have been resolved and the Belgian GP is guaranteed a spot on the calendar until at least 2015. We should hope that the teams pressure Bernie into keeping the race on the calendar, as this is a circuit that always produces a good/controversial/exciting race.
More than any other race, the Belgian Grand Prix has been hugely affected by the weather (the circuit can even be wet at one end and dry at the other), most memorably during the chaotic 1998 race where Jordan got their first (and only) 1-2, or the last-lap deluge in 2008 which featured the memorable battle between Hamilton and Raikkonen, and that stewards decision (but please try and refrain from arguing about it - the horse has been well and truly flogged).
Set-up wise, Spa is traditionally a lower-downforce circuit, although Red Bull have used a higher-downforce approach to be fast in sector 2; this has paid dividends - Vettel won here in 2011. Of course, with such a temperamental climate, any whiff of rain on race day will make the race a lottery. With the Lotii, Mercs and Red Bulls seemingly looking fast, they are the cars who you would bet your Brogans (courtesy of cider_and_toast ), for the race and with the Fewwwawi's (courtesy of Jonathan Ross) going backwards. But anything can happen in Formula 1, and it usually does.

In terms of the championship, Vettel is winning, but with the consistent Lotus Raikkonen and the seemingly tyre-issue free Mercedes, we could be in for an exciting race & exciting end to the season (well, apart from in Korea & India ;))

Spa and Monza are the last two legs of the European season, before a series of flyaway races that make up the final leg of the 2013 season and, as we saw last year, every point counts!!!

So.... Ready, Steady, Discuss!!
 
Last edited:
Yes, it was a great pole by Lewis (any pole that denies Winfinger's relentless accumulation of statistics is a good one for me), and certainly seems to give momentum to his title credentials.
However, I'd like to give a shout out for Jenson's P6- his best since the start of the year, and shows that even in a car that's not very good, he's still "got it" in mixed conditions. I've been doing a half-hearted rain dance overnight in the hope that it rains a lot and then dries out at Spa today...;)
 
RasputinLives ...... My comment had nothing to do with me being a Ferrari fan. You should know me better than that Rasputin. What you said in your reply was very true in every sense, but left out the largest contributing factor, luck. I would have been very happy to see Lewis on pole had Mercedes been performing as they did in Hungary. The session was about weather and timing, nothing more, it certainly had nothing to do with testing the conditions, unless of course you consider there were eight drivers in front of Alonso who have superior skills to him in difficult conditions. You can believe that if you wish, though many would consider that laughable.

Firstly you make your own luck because you still have to have the skill to take advantage of it.

Secondly can you tell me when F1 doesn't have an element of being in the right place at the right time or "luck" as you call it? its part of the sport.
 
Am I pissed off, absolutely. I don't want to see another season where Red Bull dominate. Ferrari have clearly made a significant step forward but have now been left with a lot of work to do. To criticize them is more than a little unfair. They went out early in Q3, which at the time, and with the weather unpredictable, was the right thing to do. Had it stayed wet they would have been heroes, sitting on pole with the Red Bull of Vettel back in 5th and Hamilton further back still. As I said I don't want to see another dominant season for Red Bull and it's a shame when a team has worked hard to make a gain only to lose out due to unpredictable weather. Of course all our views will change if Ferrari make some smart calls during the race and the weather plays into their hands. Of course if that happens I'll say they used clever strategy, you'll say they were bloody lucky. :snigger:
 
FB
I just started to read that article...but straight away they have got the date wrong for Senna in the Toleman at Monaco...they've got 1994..
 
Think it's a bit unfair to say Red Bull are dominant Kewee. We've had 5 different winners in the 10 races so far this season, I think a more accurate assessment is that no other team has been consistent enough to challenge Vettel in the Red Bull, maybe F1 2013 part 2 will be different but if the rest of the grid can't get their act together it's hardly Red Bull's fault.
 
Ok, so Hamilton was somewhat lucky, given the weather conditions, to be last man over the line before the chequered flag dropped (he and Ross Brawn admitted as much) but that wouldn't have been totally unplanned. Also, he was almost very unlucky when he just scraped into Q3 about two hundredths quicker than Hulkenberg, whom he will now be ten grid places in front of, when conditions improved rapidly at the end of Q2.

Here are one or two more observations on the Q3 session:

1. Hamilton went quicker than both Webber and Vettel had gone just before him on his first flying lap in the still wet conditions, when everyone else up to then, as well as Alonso and Raikkonen afterwards, was slower than the preceding driver.

2. Rosberg crossed the line just behind Alonso on their final laps; Rosberg went to provisional pole while Alonso was over a second down in (at the time) 4th place.

3. Hamilton was two tenths quicker than Vettel on their final laps, when they were circulating in more or less the same weather conditions on more or less the same portion of the circuit.

Perhaps we could find it in our hearts to give Hamilton just a smidgeon of credit for being on pole. And perhaps, just perhaps, a Red Bull victory this afternoon is not yet a forgone conclusion.
 
FB ..... Sorry FB, maybe I wasn't clear. I was referring to the way the second half of the season was shaping up if Ferrari, McLaren, and Lotus weren't able to mount an effective challenge. If the gains Ferrari appear to have made are real then regardless of the outcome at Spa the fight for the title should close up. Hopefully Ferrari can at least stay close to Vettel to help make the championship more exciting. By the way, I'm not blaming Red Bull for anything.
 
Of course a Red Bull victory isn't a foregone conclusion. They're not as dominant as everyone thinks they are. Vettel has only 3 poles this season and while he has won half the races so far it certainly wasn't as easy as everyone makes it out to be. The only reason Vettel is still leading the Championship is because there hasn't been anyone who could challenge on a consistent basis and he has been consistently getting good results. Only now does it look like someone (Hamilton & Mercedes) will be able to challenge for the title.

It should be a good race.
 
webcam just 5 miles from the circuit. Is that rain clouds I see in the distance. yes, yes it is.
screenshot.99.webp

http://www.skydivecenterspa.be/de/webcam_de.html
 
Kewee
Everyone (incl. Alonso) had the chance to do what the Red Bulls and Lewis have done. They didn't do it. So they got punished for it.
No, Alonso didn't have the chance, he ran out of time by a fraction of a second to put in a third timed lap. Had he begun his Q3 session a fraction later he would have been ok. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, no one would have believed it was going to stop raining. Ferrari did nothing wrong they just got unlucky.
 
Qually was all about timing, Lewis went out to be one of the first to set a lap while others went out to be the last to set a lap, when Lewis and the Red Bulls timed their laps to get another flying lap, they had previously been disadvantaged by the wetter conditions but gained as they happened to get the extra lap while Rosberg was initially last over the line managed a great lap as the conditions improved but was unlucky as the three ahead got an extra lap
 
Kewee - Of course Ferrari had the opportunity to do what the Red Bulls and Hamilton did. In fact they did, with Massa. He was the first one out to set a lap of the group that first went out on slicks. Alonso was fourth. He just missed out, but he was nowhere in the wet anyway.
 
No, Alonso didn't have the chance, he ran out of time by a fraction of a second to put in a third timed lap. Had he begun his Q3 session a fraction later he would have been ok. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, no one would have believed it was going to stop raining. Ferrari did nothing wrong they just got unlucky.

Well if he missed out by a fraction of a second maybe he should have gone faster?
 
Kewee I'm really sorry, but I have to say "discussing" with you is very tiring. I understand you are a Ferrari and especially a Fernando Alonso supporter, and that's perfectly fine, as we all have our preferences. But in order to take part in a sensible discussion with other members on a forum (This is not a Ferrari forum) you have to be more susceptible to different views and logic.
Obviously at the very moment when Q3 started, everybody had the opportunity to develop a tactic similar to the Red Bull/LH tactic. No one else did, so they didn't succeed.
 
Back
Top Bottom