Grand Prix 2012 Italian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

After a long summer break, F1 has it's second race in a week as the circus rolls onto Monza for the last European race of the season and the season is finely poised as Championship protagonists Alonso and Hamilton failed to score after a lap one crash in Belgium. McLaren team-mate Button took his second win of the season to keep alive his Championship hopes and is 'only' just over 60 points behind Alonso and 16 points behind Hamilton.

Just as Spa is famous as a historical track, Monza is similar. Monza is the definition of speed and is one of the most famous tracks in history. But it's a track that has seen as much tragedy as success with several drivers losing their lives at the circuit, notably Ronnie Petersen and Jochen Rindt. This led to modifications in the circuit with the banking sections no longer used and chicanes added in to slow the cars down with the last change being in 2000 with a change to the first corner. However, drivers are still at full throttle for the majority of the lap and it presents a major challenge to the driver, even if overtaking isn't the easiest.

Going into the Italian Grand Prix, McLaren seem to be in the best form after taking 2 victories in the last two races but were very Jekyll and Hyde as in Hungary, Hamilton won as Button struggled, and in Belgium Button won while Hamilton crashed, but we will never know how Hamilton would have got on in the race but he was certainly not the happiest after believing a wrong rear choice hampered him in qualifying as he was eight tenths behind his team mate who took his first pole position since the Monaco Grand Prix in 2009.

Alonso's DNF played into the hands of Red Bull and especially Vettel who nearly halved the deficit to Alonso despite not making Q3 he took advantage of the carnage at the start, allied with some strong overtaking, notably at the last chicane to finish second and reduce the gap to less than a race victory. Webber also benefited despite not finishing on the podium as he reduced the gap to 32 points and only 8 points behind his team-mate. A race win in Ferrari's home territory for either Webber or Vettel would really strike home at Maranello and reduce the gap to almost nothing and would be a major psychological boost, just as it would if a McLaren driver takes the flag on Sunday.

The big disappointment of Belgium was Lotus, many expected them to be fighting for the win and had said that they had the best package going into the weekend, but their only produce was a third for Raikkonen, some way off the leaders after spending much of the first half of the race fighting with Schumacher. Team mate Grosjean caused a huge crash at turn one and as a result is banned from this weekends race as punishment. Lotus will be extremely disappointed not to have turned a very strong car and good performances into a win with 2nd place being the highest they've finished so far this season and a few times both drivers have been on the podium but the top step has been elusive. They won't be too confident of changing that in Monza as the track doesn't suit their strengths and they could well be behind McLaren, Red Bull and Ferrari in terms of raw pace. However, just like in 2003, Raikkonen's consistency and abilty to bring the car home in the points means he's 4th in the Championship and is a major part of the championship despite having yet to win a race.

Mercedes certainly have the quickest car in a straight line and that will make them very competitive, as shown in 2011, but they suffer from very poor rear tyre wear which affects their traction and with slow chicanes that will cost them on Sunday but they could act as the joker in the pack with a strong qualifying performance and it was this that compromised Hamilton's race in 2011 as he was stuck behind Schumacher for the early part.

For Galahad's write up on the circuit - http://cliptheapex.com/pages/autodromo-nazionale-monza/
 
I really hope Lewis hasn't signed a contract with Mercedes. If he has, we may as well write off the promise of another possible British multiple world champion. He'll be lucky if he wins a race at Mercedes, forget about a World Championship.
 
I don't knwo if it is conspiracy theory. I thought it was interesting that he got out of the car and went straight for the door, and then had to be directed to greet his team. In the past he has always gone straight to hugging the team.

It has shades of the relationship between Alonso and McLaren a few years ago.
 
Once again, it looks like reliability is going to play a big part in where the championship ends up. McLaren still haven't sorted out their pitstops and they still go from the sublime to the ridiculous. I thought Jenson's race was compromised the moment Massa passed him in the early stages, even though he got the place back later, and there was probably more to his retirement than the fuel pick up issue being mentioned.
 
McLaren's pitstops are much improved, they're now probably the best team in the pit lane. Button's stop was slow, but it didn't cost him anything because Massa et al. were in traffic (and he retired). And implying that McLaren compromised Button's car in some way is ridiculous because his retirement played in to Alonso's hands, not Hamilton's.
 
I don't think anyone is suggesting that McLaren compromised button's race... I can't believe that people are still criticising mclaren's pit stops... Essentially there were 3 races where McLaren had problems- and this was where they were trying to incorporate new systems- and as such were more likely to make mistakes! Other teams have already gone through that learning experience!
 
Where did I suggest McLaren compromised Button's car? Please don't read what you want to read. I thought running closely in the Ferrari's dirty air, a car that is not particularly known or its aero efficiency, for 19 odd laps would've had a negative impact on his car. Button's pitstop was at least 2second slower that Hamilton's. It was a poor pitstop regardless of the impact.
 
Personally, I'm not surprised Lewis wasn't jumping up and down with glee in Parc Ferme, with several thousand fans dressed in Ferrari red booing their heads off. Yes, his demeanour was very subdued having just won the race, but he put up with the crowd with more good grace than I would have been able to muster. For sure.:)
 
Just seem some good analysis on Alonso/Vettel including comparison from last year, had it been a complete replica Vettel wouldn't have been penalised as Alonso left significant space whereas this one showed Vettel squeezing him too much especially under today's rules.

Yep, the penalty was deserved. in fact it all started in the pits when he appeared to squeeze Alonso after he was released. Something we've seen him do in the past.
 
Quintessentially That's fair enough, it's tricky to figure out the underlying reasons on the interweb sometimes. Especially in Hamilton/Button territory.

As for the pit stop, there are differing levels of bad pit stops and better times to have them. Button's pit stop wasn't a disaster and it didn't cost him anything. There will always be mistakes in pit stops, and variation in times, what's important is getting it right when it matters. They got away with it today.
 
Personally, I'm not surprised Lewis wasn't jumping up and down with glee in Parc Ferme, with several thousand fans dressed in Ferrari red booing their heads off.
One fan on the Autosport forums has said there was racial abuse directed at him from a "majority".

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=173843

Nothing new for Italy or Spain though. Perhaps the FIA should introduce sanctions, as they do in football?
 
Thanks Brogan . Just had to quote this fdom DamienUK as it is a well written post and conveys the view from trackside much better than I could from the comfort of my settee:​
Damien said, "Never, in 25 years of going to GPs, have I witnissed a reception like Lewis got this afternoon. Standing on the track at the podium ceremony, and there were whistles, boos, and plenty (and I mean PLENTY) of monkey noises and racist phrases being thrown out."

"I was so looking forward to Monza as I thought it would be a place (like Silverstone) with educated and articulate F1 fans without the corporate feel of Bahrain etc. It was full of imbeciles and wouldnt recommend it again. Seeing Fernando win at Silverstone - yes the crowd were a bit down, but he still got a polite round of applause."

"Just really disapointed that it ruined a great weekend for a British F1 fan. Speaking to some Fins and Germans on the way out, and they were also very shocked by it. Seems like the Tifosi are a 'different breed' to the British F1 fan along with the vast majority of Europe."

"Come on Lewis, hunt him down and shut them up for good. "

DamienUK:​
Hope I didn't break any posting rules, btw.​
 
I did wonder why Hamilton walked straight off the podium as soon as he'd finished speaking to Lauda rather than waiting for the other 2 interviews to finish. I wouldn't want to stay in that kind of environment longer than necessary either.
 
Perfectly understood, FB . I must say I'm a bit surprised as I have met a lot of Italians over the years, never had problem with them and always found them to be lovely people. Maybe it's just the ones who never get out of town:whistle:
 
I know this is a bit off topic but whenever I travel to Italy if there is anyone of colour in the queue for passport control I always go to a different queue as the Passport Control Officers always spend ages going through their passport page by page and I'm an impatient bugger. Germany isn't much better - at least the airports I've been through.
 
Well, this would explain why Lewis was a bit subdued... what a disgrace.

If true, and we all heard the booing at least, then a similar situation in football would lead to the banning of the fans involved and in extreme cases the club involved would get fines or other punishments. I guess the F1 equivalent would be for the FIA to investigate and then fine the organisers, or maybe a suspended removal of the race from the calendar. Something to force them to actively express the point that racism will not be tolerated.

As a side note, on the Sky coverage Lewis did mention the booing from the fans in an interview late on in the programme. Damon Hill said don't take it personally, and there didn't seem to be any implication of racism going on. Maybe Lewis didn't want to create a big fuss about it, who knows.
 
If it is true then what a sad day for F1. A bit of booing and jeering i can understand, but to resort to racist chanting and making monkey noises is out of order. Instead of taking Monza off the calendar as punishment they should have the race held with no fans there, things might change then when you hit them where it hurts and that's in the race organisers pocket.
 
I'm not sure there's a lot the race organiser can do about thousands of ignorant racists.

It's not as if they're easy to spot when purchasing tickets or going through the turnstiles...
 
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