Grand Prix 2012 Chinese Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Racking up the air miles now

Going into the third race of the 2012 season and it is still unclear where everyone lies in true race pace over a normal dry race without the intervention of a safety car apart from that McLaren have done the best job of the teams with Red Bull and Mercedes not too far apart but Mercedes seem to be struggling with higher levels of tyre degradation compared to the other front runners.

Despite all the highly publicised problems at Ferrari, Fernando Alonso currently leads the Championship after a 5th place in Australia and an against the odds victory in Malaysia where the rain early on managed to put Alonso in the lead when the others struggled. However this doesn't mean things are rosy in Maranello as when the track dried up Alonso started to fall back and was being hunted down by none other than Sergio Perez in the Sauber who was closing in rapidly on the Spaniard only to make a minor mistake with a couple of laps to go which ruined his chances of a maiden victory, but he was understandably delighted to finish in second place. Lewis Hamilton showed that he is a more rounded driver than he was in 2011 with a second consecutive third place showing he has the maturity to make the best of a bad job when circumstances were against him when he was caught out by the pit stops (like he was in Australia) to not make any mistakes and bring the car home in third place for 15 points which could be crucial at the end of the season.

On the other hand, team mate Jenson Button had a characteristically poor race after running second early on, but after outbraking himself he broke his front wing trying to overtake an HRT who was running there on position after an early gamble for wets paid off as when the red flag fell, Narain was running in 10th place which shocked fans worldwide. The red flag was also (im)famous for the introduction of gazebos all down the grid, something previously pioneered by Mercedes in Canada last season.

2012 has seen (so far) probably one of the most competitive midfields in many seasons with Force India, Sauber, Williams and Toro Rosso all pushing the top teams for points and Sauber have already claimed a podium through Perez and it could be said that on pure one lap pace, most of these teams are as quick as if not faster than Ferrari, certainly faster than Felipe Massa who is really coming under pressure for his seat after 2 mediocre performances so far while Alonso continued to drag the car to places where it shouldn't really be.

Looking ahead to China and it has been a track which has favoured McLaren in recent years with Lewis Hamilton winning in 2008 and 2011 and Jenson Button winning in the rain affected 2010 race. Hamilton should have won in 2007 but famously threw it away in the pitlane after running wide on very used tyres when he was in a position to win the Championship, something with now Lotus driver Kimi Raikkonen took advantage of to win the race and eventually steal the Championship in Brazil.

China will also be an importunity to be the first true comparison of Sky and BBC as it is the first race that will be shown live on BBC and it will certainly be very interesting to see where the two broadcasters shape up over a full race weekend and it will show to people in their own minds which one is better and it is pretty clear that it certainly won't be a clear cut thing and will be down more to personal preference than the overall package compared to the other.

For Galahad's brilliant circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/shanghai-international-circuit/
 
They won't take kindly to not winning everything in sight, but if that's how the cards fall then so be it.

I think people got a little carried away with Red Bull's domination. They've only won back to back titles, and 2010 was by 4 points. Sure 2011 was uniquely dominant, but throughout F1 history it is almost the norm for teams to win titles in clumps. In fact, between 1988 and 2006, all drivers titles were won by teams in clumps. It was 2006-2010 which was weird, with 5 different teams winning the drivers title, in 5 years. I don't think Red Bull have put themselves in any more of a superior position than Renault did in 2005-06. There is no certainty that Red Bull will return to the top in the coming seasons, just as it wasn't for Renault. They have good things in place, but F1 isn't that simple. If it was, Ferrari would not be struggling so much. Red Bull need to learn how to lose quickly if they wish to start winning again.
 
The engineer makes it sound Vettel is like Button where the car needs to be perfect to perform

It looks that way too. Although it was clear Vettel's back end was getting very lose, you can't help but feel a more aggressive driver would've handled it better. Vettel's style almost looked like he refused to turn in until the car had completely rebalanced itself. Vettel was most in his element when he did have the perfect back end due to blown diffuser, etc.
 
I think people got a little carried away with Red Bull's domination. They've only won back to back titles, and 2010 was by 4 points. Sure 2011 was uniquely dominant, but throughout F1 history it is almost the norm for teams to win titles in clumps. In fact, between 1988 and 2006, all drivers titles were won by teams in clumps. It was 2006-2010 which was weird, with 5 different teams winning the drivers title, in 5 years. I don't think Red Bull have put themselves in any more of a superior position than Renault did in 2005-06. There is no certainty that Red Bull will return to the top in the coming seasons, just as it wasn't for Renault. They have good things in place, but F1 isn't that simple. If it was, Ferrari would not be struggling so much. Red Bull need to learn how to lose quickly if they wish to start winning again.


Tell that to Christian Horner .. he is not as smug now

Red Bull's domination last year was the EBD and flexi wings reliant .. which gave them or I should say Vettel at least 0.5 -1 second per lap quali pace
 
It looks that way too. Although it was clear Vettel's back end was getting very lose, you can't help but feel a more aggressive driver would've handled it better. Vettel's style almost looked like he refused to turn in until the car had completely rebalanced itself. Vettel was most in his element when he did have the perfect back end due to blown diffuser, etc.


Lose back end - oversteer problem
 
Lose back end - oversteer problem

Yeah. Davidson showed it up in the skypad at end of both Q1 and 2. To be fair to him, it was pretty severe, but nowhere near the over-steer problems Alonso is managing his way to 9th with. Plus, a lot of it seems to be his own fault for choosing that exhaust design, as we didn't see Webber suffering the same problems.
 
Red Bull's domination last year was the EBD and flexi wings reliant .. which gave them or I should say Vettel at least 0.5 -1 second per lap quali pace

I think that is pretty safe to say now, as they were the key changes from last year to this. I think it is healthy in F1 for there to be this sort of restrictions on new technologies. Every year seems to develop something new. Would we have 2012 Super DRS year if Mercedes were still trying to develop their EBD. And next year it should be Super DRS that gets banned. Keep the teams working.
 
Judging by the Grand National Viking blonde shall crash at the second turn, Neptune Collange shall win due to his great straight line speed, Shakalakaboomboom shall lead but fall behind, take who you want to be who! blonde viking is Rosberg, Neptune is the other Merc of Michael, and Shakalakaboomboom is Lewis somehow! I still think Hammy will win and it's going to be a fantastic race!
 
I haven't noticed that being a common theme on this forum, what I have noticed is a lot of people criticizing Webber for last years performances.

Didn't say it was a theme just said lets wait and see - and yes there was a lot of criticism of Webber last year because over the 19 race season he had some pretty awful results and should have done better - but thats over 19 races. The amazing Mark Webber come back which may, or may not, be currently in place during the fall of Sebastian Vettel, which also might or might not happen, needs longer than 2 Grand Prix's and 3 qualifying sessions to be declared. Especially as race wise Webber has only beat Seb the once and that was due to Vettel's error rather than his brilliance.
 
Webber was bound to be criticised after his team-mate took 12/13 poles identical machinery and 11 wins and Mark got 1 which Seb let him have...
 
Kubica had been Ferrari's choice to replace Massa for 2011 .. it was almost a done deal until at the last minute Ferrari announce they will keep Felipe again which is odd given that there are camps at Ferrari that don;t rate Massa..he is the last of Todt's legacy at Ferrari

Just what has this to do with whether or not Alonso and Kubica would have got on well in the same team? Don't come out with the "Alonso chooses who races with him", di Montezemolo decides and he has his own way. Look at his record.

Alas this also renders the rest of your post invalid.
 
I don't think Alonso has a say on who his team mate will be but I do think he has signed as number one status and any driver wishing to join Ferrari will be asked to sign as number two and if they don't accept then they don't get signed up.

From my point of view this is not the best way to run a team, and is probably why we are seeing lack luster drives from Massa and anyone who replaces Massa will go the same way, joining Ferrari as a number two driver is not a good career move for a driver unless he is just in it for the money...
 
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