Grand Prix 2012 Brazilian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

So it all comes down to the final race. The prancing horse versus the charging bull. The passionate Catalan versus the efficient German. Red versus Blue. Enough of the clichés, Vettel has a 13 point lead over Alonso going in to the race between the lakes so only has to finish in front of the Spaniard to claim his third title in a row. All the pressure will be on Ferrari and Alonso to give the Spaniard his third title and they probably need something to go wrong at Red Bull to stand any chance of winning, if their pace in the USA was anything to go by.

After his victory in the USA Lewis Hamilton will be hoping to leave McLaren on a high note. Lotus, surely, would love a second victory in 2012 but as fast as the car is it can't compete with the top 3 teams. Felipe Massa is starting to regain some of his old form and will, without doubt, be required to ride shotgun to Alonso. Mark Webber will be looking to win again at Interlagos but I doubt Vettel will suffer similar "brake" problems as he had last year.

The constructors championship is all sown up with Red Bull champions again. McLaren could steal 2nd place from Ferrari but a stronger performance from Jenson Button is needed in Brazil. Last year he was 3rd, two McLaren men in the top 4 could win them a few extra millions from FOM.

The final factor to build in is the weather. Brazil is notorious for changeable weather conditions and a sprinkling of rain could turn things Alonso's way. So tune next Sunday for the final event of 2012, but before then feel free to express your opinions below and don't forget to check out the circuit write up.

http://cliptheapex.com/pages/autodromo-jose-carlos-pace-interlagos/

 

[mnmracer]

Can anyone actually see any flag from the marshall post, or the post at all for that matter?
It's impossible to make out for me.

 

[Fenderman]

Yes jez101 Vergne may be slower out of the corner but bear in mind the opening of the concertina effect as the car in front gasess out of the corner first. That in itself exaggerates the widening of the gap. Add to that the exaggeration of distance to the focal length of the in car cameras. If one is trailing a row of cars one doesn't drive faster than the bloke in front just because everybody else has zoomed away in the distance. Listening to Vettel's engine he audibly gets on the gas to do the pass. There's no hint that he is caught out by a sudden braking on the part of Vergne as he performs a perfect pass. I am now seated quite comfortably down on one side of the fence quite happy with my personal opinion on this one. Happy days.

BTW In no way do I hold it against SV for winning his title at the weekend, if that's what anyone was thinking.

 

[Wombcat]

Can anyone actually see any flag from the marshall post, or the post at all for that matter?
It's impossible to make out for me.

There is movement, but hard to tell what it exactly is.

 

[sushifiesta]

Viscount He's passing a Marussia in that shot though, not Vergne?

 

[Viscount]

Yeah I realised that, wrong overtake!

What lap did he actually pass Vergne in that video?

 

[mnmracer]

Apparently there was a green flag:

 

[sushifiesta]

 

[Fenderman]

... now if sushifiesta could just enhance the yellow lights and the word flag on Seb's dash as I may be seeing things ... oh and the audo as I may have been hearing things when I thought the guy who put the video together was explaining things clearly ... oh and if someone could just speed up the part where he replays the yellow flag overtake at normal speed so that I can get a full impression of how suddenly Seb' has to react to that sluggish Toro Rosso ...perhaps then I can make an informed judgement about the whole thing.

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

It's gotta be hard been a steward these days, so many incidents. They either damned if they do and crucified if their don't. However I think now the time has come for Charlie Whiting to come out and speak to the press over decisions been made in the stewards room.

 

[jez101]

Well, it is either a green flag being waved next to a green marshall's post or a green marshall's post flapping in the wind

D'ya think they should reconsider the colour of the marshall's post?

 

[Fenderman]

Indeed, HammydiRestarules . Full disclosure is well overdue. I don't think we'll ever get it though because no-one likes to be embarrassed by exposure of their errors or biases. Unlike us of course who happily stick our hands up because we know our mistakes just add to our entertainment. Theirs can cost them their cosy jobs. What's the term? "Best keep schtum"?


I don't get it. What's the pre-occupation with this green flag? Did I imagine the soundtrack on that video or what?

Edit: It is all expertly explained in the video step by step.

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

However it would be great if we could hear what the Marshall was waving him/herself.

But there's not much we can do about it now, Vettel's the champion and will be for at least another season , until Button wins the 2013 title this time next year .

 

[jez101]

A bit more on this green flag. I have watched the first laps again, I'm not sure when this occurred though - the video says lap 3 or 4.

This is what I know:
1. When the leaders come out of the eases on lap 3, there is a clear yellow flag from that marshalls post.
2. The flag is withdrawn as Massa goes past.
3. At that same moment, the DRS is enabled message is shown on screen.
4. A green flag then appears from that Marshall after Schu, Ricciardo and Petrov go past, just as Grosjean and Kovaleinen go past the post..
5. They are followed by Glock, Vergne and an HRT.
6. The end of the same lap 3 shot shows Vettel passing Pic. Vettel starts this move on Pic after the green flag.

This is all on lap 3. There is a clear and obvious green flag from this marshalls post on lap 3.

I believe that this disputed pass happens on lap 4 while we are watching the start highlights.

Given that Vettel has clearly seen the green flag on lap 3, passed Pic in this location and then on lap 4 caught JEV and passed him in the same place, I am pretty happy that there were no rule infringements.

 

[sushifiesta]

In the video there are clearly yellow lights on before/whilst Vettel is passing Vergne though. They wouldn't have taken a lap to turn off so surely there must have been another incident on the following lap to turn them back on again? For that reason I think what happens on lap 3 is largely irrelevant.

 

[Wombcat]

sushifiesta: if there's a green flag waved at the marshalls post at the pit exit, wouldn't that be relevant? I would think that green flag would indicate the yellow zone ended. Otherwise the marshalls' post would be useless.

 

[Fenderman]

So, let me get this right, the yellow lights and the word "flag" on Seb's dash are also irrelevant then?

Edit: I'm sorry. As far as I'm concerned this one is firmly in bed I promise I'll not say another word.

 

[sushifiesta]

Wombcat Yes of course, but a green flag waved on lap 3 doesn't mean there was a green flag there on lap 4. All the evidence we have from the lap 4 video is the lights (you can't really make out the flag), and going by the lights only Vettel passed Vergne under yellows. The lights being on in that area on lap 4 suggests there was a new incident on that lap to turn them back on again once they had been turned off on lap 3.

I'm pretty confident that there was a green flag being waved there on lap 4 on the basis that none of the teams, pundits etc. have even mentioned it, but we don't have irrefutable evidence. I'd also point out that I don't see an accident/debris/parked car anywhere around that complex of corners or straight. That isn't an excuse to overtake under yellows but it does make it seem more plausible to suggest that there was a green flag at that marshal post.

 

[jez101]

All I can say for sure having watched it again is that there is a green flag waving at the marshalls post as Vettel passed Pic in the same place on lap 3. DRS is not disabled again though until the leaders are starting the climb at the end of lap 4. By this time the timing screens show that Vettel is past Vergne and Glock.

 

[sushifiesta]

Stupid question, was the DRS on that straight? If so it does add to the argument that there was probably a green flag being shown at that marshal post. I guess we're relying on the DRS disabled/enabled notices we see perfectly matching the time when it is actually disabled/enabled though. I'd also suggest that it is a DRS enabled notice that we'd be expecting to see before Vettel passed Vergne rather than a DRS disabled notice after he passed Vergne on the basis of the yellow lights being on in the previous corners.

I think it's all a bit of a moot point really; the fact that there's even a hint of a green flag being there means I'm not too bothered about just trusting that the stewards got it right.

 

[Wombcat]

sushifiesta, there's some movement in the marshallstand at the pitexit in the video of lap 4. Hard to tell what exactly, but based om the previous lap, it's likely to be a green flag.
The lights on Vettels' dashboard are on though, but if there's a green flag waved I'd think he'd be allowed to overtake again.