Grand Prix 2012 Brazilian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

So it all comes down to the final race. The prancing horse versus the charging bull. The passionate Catalan versus the efficient German. Red versus Blue. Enough of the clichés, Vettel has a 13 point lead over Alonso going in to the race between the lakes so only has to finish in front of the Spaniard to claim his third title in a row. All the pressure will be on Ferrari and Alonso to give the Spaniard his third title and they probably need something to go wrong at Red Bull to stand any chance of winning, if their pace in the USA was anything to go by.

After his victory in the USA Lewis Hamilton will be hoping to leave McLaren on a high note. Lotus, surely, would love a second victory in 2012 but as fast as the car is it can't compete with the top 3 teams. Felipe Massa is starting to regain some of his old form and will, without doubt, be required to ride shotgun to Alonso. Mark Webber will be looking to win again at Interlagos but I doubt Vettel will suffer similar "brake" problems as he had last year.

The constructors championship is all sown up with Red Bull champions again. McLaren could steal 2nd place from Ferrari but a stronger performance from Jenson Button is needed in Brazil. Last year he was 3rd, two McLaren men in the top 4 could win them a few extra millions from FOM.

The final factor to build in is the weather. Brazil is notorious for changeable weather conditions and a sprinkling of rain could turn things Alonso's way. So tune next Sunday for the final event of 2012, but before then feel free to express your opinions below and don't forget to check out the circuit write up.

http://cliptheapex.com/pages/autodromo-jose-carlos-pace-interlagos/

 

[snowy]

I don't know why I'm laughing.

 

[Fenderman]

I do

 

[sushifiesta]

Fenderman Now some of this will be down to the natural lengthening/shortening of the distances as the cars accelerate and decelerate, but you can clearly see that the gap between Vergne and the cars in front significantly increases and Vergne makes no obvious mistakes (the car looks pretty planted) to account for it otherwise. I definitely think there's evidence that he lifted, whether he lifted a dangerous amount leaving Vettel no option but to overtake him is something the stewards should have been deciding in order to figure out who deserved the penalty.

Corner exit:

As Vettel is overtaking:

 

[Jen]

'Cos if you didn't you'd cry snowy - the sport and it's proponents are in 'disrepute'!?

 

[Fenderman]

No excuse for it sushifiesta . Overtaking within the zone of waved yellow flags, whether that is a racing overtake or just a passing overtake is prohibited. Period. If it was Vergne moving over due to an instruction from his compliant Red Bull that isn't a Red Bull team, then in my book that makes the offence worse..

Editing for clarity: As TBY says below there are circumstances which obvously exist whereby having to pass another car is unavoidable. In ththe instance we are discussing I personally, rightly or wrongly do not see it as one of those.

 

[Jos the Boss]

For the record, I don't think you're allowed to lap cars under a yellow flag

 

[Wombcat]

Aren't you suppose to lift during a yellow?
And not overtake during a yellow?
So during yellow if the one ahead of you lifts, that's not an invitation to overtake, as far as I know.

 

[sushifiesta]

I agree with you on the whole but there are exceptions, if Vergne just stamped on the brakes for no apparent reason to take the extreme case, for example. It's made more complicated by the fact that there are team orders at play here as well, but if it was, say, a Sauber instead and he took his foot completely off the throttle unexpectedly you can argue that it would be safer for Vettel to pass and avoid causing a collision (possibly with drivers behind) by following suit.

The way Vergne lifts doesn't seem particularly dramatic in this case though, I'll give you that, which does mean that Vettel probably should have had a penalty. Vergne/Toro Rosso probably a reprimand as well.

EDIT: Having said all this, even if Vettel did pass Vergne for safety reasons he should have then let him back through. If you think back to the bad memory of Hamilton and Trulli at Melbourne in 2009 though you can see that even McLaren, who are widely respected for their impeccable decision making, were confused about the intricacies of the rule, so it's not as straight forward as it would seem.

 

[teabagyokel]

Overtaking within the zone of waved yellow flags, whether that is a racing overtake or just a passing overtake is prohibited. Period.

I'm afraid it isn't. If the driver ahead suddenly slows or offs, then you are allowed to overtake them. That's why the Lie-gate scenario was such. If overtaking was prohibited period, then Trulli would have been demoted and no questions asked of Hamilton.

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

Interesting... I am guessing that due to the variable weather and track conditions (and the marshalls with really REALLY sore index fingers from hitting all those different multicoloured buttons each lap) that only egregious infringements were punished...

...
...
unless you were Hulkenberg... who I reckon was about to get off until Bernie called on his personal Bat Phone and told them to give 'im a drive through for up Hamilton's McLaren finale...

 

[teabagyokel]

ZakspeedYakspeed - Don't compare the Ecclesphone to the inferior Batphone.

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

teabagyokel ... I think you are right ... and I also think that Robin (aka Max Mosely) got the Bat Phone as part of his severance package...

my humblest apologies kind sir

 

[Fenderman]

teabagyokel in an extreme case I'd agree with you but that I don't think that was an extreme example. As always I could wrong ... but I don't think I am, this time.

 

[jez101]

I'm sorry Fenderman but I am with sushifiesta on this. The Toro Rosso is right on the car ahead at the exit of the esses and then drops way back on the following straight. I think any sort of penalty would have been unbelievably harsh. I don't know the rules but I don't think they say that you have to stay behind the car in front under all circumstances.

For all Vettel knew the TR could have been about to do what Kartikeyan's HRT did in front of Rosberg in Abu Dhabi - it is that level of dramatic slowing.

 

[teabagyokel]

Fenderman - I'm pretty sure JEV was getting out of the way - as Brundle put it (in 2010), he saw P45 on his pit board.

 

[Wombcat]

On another forum it's mentioned that it seems to be that at the pit exit (at about 10:27-10:29) there's a green flag waved, but it's hard to see.

 

[jez101]

There aren't any lights between the last yellow and first green one according to this map Wombcat

 

[Wombcat]

jez101 It's not a light, but a flag, and there is a marshall post there (the green square)

 

[teabagyokel]

The flags over-ride the lights.

 

[mnmracer]

No lights, but there is a marshall post.
If they were waving green, it's still good to go.