2010-12 Wet Weather Championships

[Mansell4Ever]

The rain master is definitely Jenson. Wet races are unpredictable and from where I stand he definitely wins whenever there is rain and no reliability or accidents in his path. As for Alonso being the rain master what is there to say more that had he won in Brazil he would have been champion. And yet we saw how he couldn't keep the pace of Hulk.

 

[Il_leone]

I am surprised Vettel has only two wins in the wet given people raved about his abilities initially in those conditions

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Il_leone

To be fair to Vettel he did lose 2 wins in the wet due to poor reliability, Oz 2010 was dodgy brakes and South Korea was engine. But on the flipside they've all had bad luck somewhere...

 

[Mansell4Ever]

By the way, Alonso is not rain world champion over the last three seasons. If math is still to be considered an exact science Button won 2010 and 11 and Alonso 2012. The year with less races in the wet.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Button is a "Mixed" master. His lack of outright pace is actually a blessing in such conditions. In fully wet monsoon conditions (which are rarely raced in anyway these days) he's definitely not a "master"

 

[teabagyokel]

KekeTheKing - I don't think it can be claimed he has additional pace in mixed conditions; he just gets the calls right on tyres over and over again. If I were an F1 driver in the wet I' d probably just do whatever Button does. In fact, Nick Heidfeld tended to be a good barometer of the right tyre to be on in the wet, but obviously without winning anything.

 

[teabagyokel]

Mansell4Ever - A sample of less than three years is scarcely a "Championship" with the restricted sample size. Plus this a response to an assumption RasputinLives made.

 

[Il_leone]

teabagyokel KekeTheKing

Button is best when the track is damp and the grip is uncertain and he really excels with his smooth style

When the track is full wet his advantage seems to be eroded whether its due to cars like Red Bull which have higher downforce which makes very effective in the wet and/or he seems to not get to grips with the full wet pirelli's

On the Bridgestone wet he was mighty quick on that

Button has been superior than Heidfeld in similar conditions. I find Heidfeld seems to just purely gamble or bust cause rather than actually be the quickest in those conditions to win

Button when he gets on the tyre or he does not he just seems to seriously quick in the uncertain conditions. He seems to have a 6th sense in these conditions and it always seems to be the right one

Although I do not think anyone would beat Senna as the best wet weather driver in F1

 

[soccerman17]

All time Senna is definitely first and Jim Clark probably second. Prost has to be up there too. I don't really enough history to go any further with that.

Everyone else seems to be summarizing so I might as well too. Alonso and Hamilton most consistent in the wet but Button is the fastest. Also Kubica was good in the wet and will definitely be missed. Vettel interestingly behind the unfancied number twos Massa and Webber.

 

[teabagyokel]

Prost!?

50 dry wins...

 

[Mansell4Ever]

So, in your opinion a 3 year sample is adequate? On what ground may I ask. That is the one that fits Alonso? At least the one year interval keeps with the official season and is imune to outside manipulation. It is what we have seen through an entire season. Next season, next count. There are not "enough" races? what does that mean? It is not like we are going to definitelly prove anything here. But if you want to stick to that argument then a full championship has 20 races, so track back 20 races. Why stop at 9? Maybe Alonso still comes out as "rain champion". I don't know and don't care.

I would not be calling rain champion to a guy that prayed for rain in Brazil and could not keep his car in front Hulkenberg in a Force India when the title depended on it. He could not even keep Massa behind in a similar car. Further back a young German came fast with a fury in a underpowered, unbalanced car lapping ever faster, that is, trying to be world champion, not seeing if it happened. At a given point all the "rain master" did was beg for a safety car to narrow his gap to the lead. Which he promply got.

Miths are hard do bring down because people who believe in them grab every shread of information to build a consistent story that demonstrates the mith's alleged power. When it comes to Alonso I've heard it all. He was the ultimate developer of cars until he came back to Renault, he never faltered under pressure until he was stuck behind Petrov, he was the rain master until he crashed in Japan. He is the driver of the age, but it has been 6 years now...and counting.

 

[Josh]

He got the most points during wet races so Alonso is the rain champion. Every great driver makes mistakes, even Senna crashed (he probably crashed once or twice during wet races as well). If I slightly know tby (and I'd like to think that I do after 1 and a half years on this site) he isn't a fanboy of any one driver and gives fair praise where it is due, so your comments about him trying to make Alonso come out as the best wet driver of the lot seem slightly odd to me and a bit disrespectful. Also if you had paid attention you'd have seen tby quoted RasputinLives in his first post (tby's post was actually a response to RasputinLives' post but it got its own thread because it was worthy of its own discussion) and RasputinLives was talking about the last 3 seasons (and Button being the reigning rain champion) hence why tby used the wet/mixed races from 2010-12 in his post. Hope that clears things up.

 

[Slyboogy]

Another point is, 2010-2012, the cars have been somewhat consistent, and have been in the same cars throughout those seasons, the top 4 teams anyway. The top 3 teams have been race winners aswell, so it gives a bit more of a better indication, rather than when there was a bit of a field spread from 2008 backwards.

 

[Il_leone]

Mansell4Ever

So was Vettel which no one noticed because the Red Bull was set up with high downforce in case of rain but it was a tow truck down the straight in Brazil

 

[soccerman17]

My bad teabagyokel I said I didn't know too much about the history didn't I?

 

[Mansell4Ever]

I'm sorry Il Leone but I do not understand. So was Vettel what, to whom?

Regarding the lack of top speed I'm affraid I don't agree with you. Nowadays cars go tops on downforce either in the rain or in the dry. The reasons for Vettel's lack of top speed on straights were 1) the gear shift ratio he and Red Bull always favour 2) the reduced power in his engine to prevent overheating after the crash.

Still a (another) supreme drive to much despair from those who are sure he cannot overtake or drive in the rain. And even have figures to prove it.