1st or 80th?

[Brogan]

That's correct G, as far as I'm aware, what we currently have should be accurate.

It's just these few teams which might need some tweaking to get it correct.

 

[Galahad]

OK, so we either decide on our own definitions and stick to them consistently throughout, or try to fit in with the majority of other sites (or sites that we consider worthy!)?

There is no right or wrong here, I fear.

 

[Brogan]

There is no right or wrong here, I fear.

Indeed, I think we collectively realised that the last time we looked at this

 

[F1Yorkshire]

OK, so we either decide on our own definitions and stick to them consistently throughout, or try to fit in with the majority of other sites (or sites that we consider worthy!)?

There is no right or wrong here, I fear.

I think we need to look at each teams website where possible and get the history from there.

When I was looking at the Williams records earlier I noticed different dates on 4 websites, its interesting to note that BBC have Lotus as the original team while Formula1.com and wikipedia doesn't,

While studying for her degree my OH was told she could not quote wikipedia directly as it is open source but she could use it to help her look in the right directions while researching, as useful as wiki is I don't think we should use it as source material.

 

[Brogan]

I've already posted this in the database forum but I'm throwing it out to a wider audience.

Now that we have the third incarnation of Lotus, how does that relate to the other two?
In terms of race entries, wins, etc. are they all the same team or three separate teams?

Manipe seems to think they all go to Lotus and Manipe is one of the best (and most accurate) database out there, so this clearly has me confused.
http://www.manipef1.com/teams/lotus/drivers/

So this is how it currently looks in the database - the team ID is on the left.

235, Lotus : 1958 - 1994
496, Lotus Racing : 2010 - 2011
???, Lotus : 2012

Manipe has Lotus as a single team from 1958 - 1994 and 2010 - 2012.
Wiki has Lotus as 3 separate teams from 1958 - 1994, 2010 - 2011 and 2012.

Does anyone else have access to any other reputable databases just so we can compare and contrast?

Normally I wouldn't care, but as we're building the new database, we need to be accurate.

 

[FB]

F1.com takes their lineage back to Toleman - nothing to do with Lotus at all.

http://www.formula1.com/teams_and_drivers/teams/6/

 

[Brogan]

Well that's a bit of a curve ball!

They seem to consider them a continuation of Renault: http://www.manipef1.com/teams/2011/renault/

 

[sportsman]

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/b3d6d4240bcf0ce9d84ccbdb91a15d12/compdetails Name & Registered Office:
LOTUS F1 TEAM LIMITED
16 OLD BAILEY
LONDON
EC4M 7EG
Company No. 01806337

Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 05/04/1984

Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC):
9261 - Operate sports arenas & stadiums
9262 - Other sporting activities
Accounting Reference Date: 31/12
Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2010 (FULL)
Next Accounts Due: 30/09/2012
Last Return Made Up To: 13/08/2011
Next Return Due: 10/09/2012
Last Members List: 13/08/2011
Previous Names:
Date of changePrevious Name
03/02/2012 LOTUS RENAULT GP LIMITED
16/12/2010 RENAULT F1 TEAM LIMITED
28/02/2002 RENAULT F1 LIMITED
22/11/2001 BENETTON FORMULA LIMITED
01/07/1985 INREMCO 60 LIMITED

 

[Brogan]

Someone had better tell the FIA then... http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/championships/f1/2012/Pages/entry-list.aspx

LOTUS F1 TEAM
Wins: 0
Poles: 0
World Titles: 0

See now why it's so difficult to reach consensus on this?

 

[teabagyokel]

The one thing I think is clear, and important, is that Caterham is a continuation of Lotus Racing. It ought to be stressed that Enstone and Hingham have nowt to do with each other.

 

[the_roadie]

If a team stops production and ceases to exist, then it's tally of wins should end at that point.

...or, I suggest, if it is is sold and resumes racing under a new name and ownership.

Nobody's suggesting for a moment that ToroRosso's achievements be added on to Minardi's even though at least there's a tangible and continuous link, factory base, team, people, .....

2K-Lotus by contrast has got nothing whatever to do with the Chapman Lotus, it was just a trademark that was traded around the place for a couple of decades before someone completely new started up a completely new team and needed a pretty name to shove up above the garage, so they bought the Lotus name out of a dusty old filing cabinet.
Even worse, after a couple of years they then sold the Lotus name to Renault.
The current "Lotus" hasn't even got any pedigree connection with the outfit that bought the dusty bit of paper three years ago !

If Lotus in the c.21 win a race it'll be No.1

 

[the_roadie]

CHECK: Just been reading http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98628 that Group Lotus (the sports car maker and subsidiary of Proton) has been sold this week and has severed all the recently created links with the F1 team currently racing under the Lotus name.

Even the most tenuous on-paper link with the original Chapman Lotus has now been severed, although the name remains.
For how long, who knows? The owners of the F1 team, Genii Capital, are looking for a new title sponsor so anything could happen !

 

[Brogan]

I finally have the answer...

 

[Jos the Boss]

I saw that yesterday, I still can't follow it!

 

[the_roadie]

I finally have the answer...

View attachment 3870

Tsch! you should have said that before saved us all the trouble of banging on about it