Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[teabagyokel]

Could have put a tie on Seb.

Wasn't his response to Button saying that - "I'll worry about putting a tie on when I'm 30+"

 

[sportsman]

Wasn't his response to Button saying that - "I'll worry about putting a tie on when I'm 30+"

 

[ExtremeNinja]

So, we are now going to see Vettel being put to the test that he has so far been lucky enough to avoid. First blow goes against him. Will he roll with the punches or are we going to see a big hitter with a glass jaw?

My suspicions have never changed and I honestly don't believe that Vettel is the full package. I am, of course, waiting to see if he will prove me wrong - which he may well do.

 

[RasputinLives]

So, we are now going to see Vettel being put to the test that he has so far been lucky enough to avoid. First blow goes against him. Will he roll with the punches or are we going to see a big hitter with a glass jaw?

My suspicions have never changed and I honestly don't believe that Vettel is the full package. I am, of course, waiting to see if he will prove me wrong - which he may well do.

There may have been a little bit of luck involved Ninja but you got to give him plus marks for a recovery drive today.

 

[Il_leone]

There may have been a little bit of luck involved Ninja but you got to give him plus marks for a recovery drive today.

the luck is going with Seb somewhat given he was in the pitlane when the safety car come out whilst Lewis had to slow down and his teammate once again makes another shoddy start

Whilst the threat posed by Grosjean and the Mercedes did not happen..but they say you make your own luck in F1

But surely the speed of the Mclaren is a wake up call for his team as their straight line speed weakness at other tracks could seriously expose them to constant attack

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Vettel's pace was fantastic today. Made up four places in the race only having to complete one overtake, a tasty one at that. Good drive. Luck or no luck, if he had given up and didn't have the pace he would not have been in a position to take advantage of the opportunities gifted him.

That Red Bull is fast in race conditions, isn't it. Going to be a very interesting battle this season and it looks as though Vettel and Webber could both be in it.

 

[Il_leone]

Vettel's pace was fantastic today. Made up four places in the race only having to complete one overtake, a tasty one at that. Good drive. Luck or no luck, if he had given up and didn't have the pace he would not have been in a position to take advantage of the opportunities gifted him.

That Red Bull is fast in race conditions, isn't it. Going to be a very interesting battle this season and it looks as though Vettel and Webber could both be in it.

Vettel is not going to run away with it like last year as Webber seems to be closer to him this year . Interesting to see how both compare without the EBD now

 

[ExtremeNinja]

If not for Webber's dodgy start, I believe he fully had the measure of Vettel today.

He has to sort them starts out. If he does that he could be as much of a surprise in measure against Vettel as Button has been against Hamilton since thier partnership (as far as many are concerned)

 

[Viscount]

Whilst I don't think Vettel may be anywhere near the best at overtaking in Formula One, I think he has shown that he can overtake.

 

[johnnoble1990]

I think the myth that Vettel cannot overtake came from the 2 incidences where he lost control of his car on a straight, in 2010. It is pretty rare to see an F1 driver losing control of a car on a straight, which made it look like the pressure of being in close competition made them happen. Of course, the infamous turkey incident, from a team pov, Webber should've left more room, but from a general racing pov, it was Vettel who lost control.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Whilst I don't think Vettel may be anywhere near the best at overtaking in Formula One, I think he has shown that he can overtake.

Struggling to be impressed by a compilation of a fast car driving past slower cars. The two that are noteworthy are his overtake on Alonso at Monza which is commendable, although wreckless, and the overtake on Sutil at Silverstone which I feel he should have got a penalty for. Otherwise, these are more passes than overtakes.

 

[Viscount]

Struggling to be impressed by a compilation of a fast car driving past slower cars. The two that are noteworthy are his overtake on Alonso at Monza which is commendable, although wreckless, and the overtake on Sutil at Silverstone which I feel he should have got a penalty for. Otherwise, these are more passes than overtakes.

Aren't the majority of overtakes made because the overtaking driver is faster? It might not compare to a compilation of say Kobayashi's overtakes, I'm just saying that Vettel can overtake plus it's notably difficult to overtake a car around the outside, something he does to a Brawn, Rosberg and Alonso twice in that video.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Aren't the majority of overtakes made because the overtaking driver is faster? It might not compare to a compilation of say Kobayashi's overtakes, I'm just saying that Vettel can overtake plus it's notably difficult to overtake a car around the outside, something he does to a Brawn, Rosberg and Alonso twice in that video.

What I mean is that these overtakes are generally not outstanding examples of race craft. They are all easy passes with the exception of the overtake on Alonso which, as I said at the time, I thought was unnecessarily wreckless and impatient.

 

[GermanF1]

That's the new finger...

 

[RasputinLives]

I'm sure Alonso has no need for that. He doesn't deal well with competitive teammates. Ferrari have good reason to want a more competitive driver in the other car though.

You're getting very Anti-Vettel this year Ninja. I don't think you give him a fair rub. I think even if he came from 24th to 1st in the space of a lap you'd find a reason not to be impressed. None of the current world champions in the field other than Heir Schumacher have won their titles when they have not been in superior machinary. This season is the first season Seb has been in the position of having to hang on in a car that isn't as good for a title and but for a backmarker incident he would have had 31 points and been 2nd in the championship in front of both Mclarens. I think he's done a decent job with a difficult car this year so give him a little credit where credit is due.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

I agree we can't judge Seb the same way we did last year, this year his car is not fastest and he has spent time mixing it with other cars. An we know that this leads to 'racing incidents' were luck comes into play. If the 50/50 had gone his way he would be up there in the table ahead of faster cars and we would probably take this as a sign that he has answered his critics

Sure he didn't have to call others idiots it he has driven as well in both races as we would expect

 

[ecclestoned]

I didn't spot that many holes in his game,really.
The last 2 world titles he's got in the bag already.
And the first 2 races of this season,considering his car is not the class of the field anymore,he has driven exceptionally well.
In Australia he clinched a second place(be it lucky with the SC),by not putting a foot wrong,overtaking where needed and consolidating his position when he understood he couldn't threaten JB for the win.
In Malaysia he handily avoided hitting Schumacher and Grosjean spinning in front of him on the first lap(and Rosberg did very well to avoid colliding with him in the same move)
He was only jumped by Alonso through better pit stop strategy(I'm still at a loss why RB called in both cars at the same time behind Hamilton)
He kept Kimi and Webber behind him for several laps,until he got close enough to overtake Rosberg in the DRS zone,which he did.
In the last laps before his tyre got damaged,he had gotten within 2 seconds behind LH( Webber and Perez were interchanging fastest times in those laps,so he couldn't have been far off that pace since MW stayed around 3 odd sec behind him)
At first i thought he had cut in too early on NK,but after looking at further footage of the incident, saw that his Tyre got cut from behind.
He must have felt very frustrated to be hit by a blue flagged car,while he was getting ready to challenge for third position.
Still,there is no excuse for his unsporting gestures and wording after the race,the only holes in his game I noticed so far this seaon.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I didn't spot that many holes in his game,really.

This suggest to me that you have misinterpreted that I am referring to a particular day. I refer to my ongoing analysis of him as he progresses through his career, the results of which may be different to your own analysis.

He's put in a good couple of races but we are seeing weaknesses in his qualifying. Most of the mistakes which have seen him being taken out of a race or taking someone else out of the race have been resultant of not leaving enough room for the person he is overtaking (I feel he must take at least a small portion of the blame for his demise yesterday). I think his team elevate him with their support in contrast to Webber who relies on his "grit". We can see how the same approach damaged Hamilton, and Vettel's post race reaction yesterday indicates to me that he faces the same dangers. Vettel is a fantastic driver, there is no doubt about that whatsoever. But, is he yet the complete package? I would say no. Could he be? I would say yes.

 

[RasputinLives]

Well I don't think he's the complete package but I would say he's probably been closer to it in the last 3 seasons that his peers

 

[Jen]

I see Vettel as a young man who has a way to go before he matures into a fully formed racing driver - he has been faced with a couple of hiccups this season (after two blinders which led to WDCs) and is not coping terribly well - I understand that and am sure that he is perfectly capable of learning and growing into a multiple WDC.

There is absolutely no science that will prove my belief though.