Pirelli 2013 F1 tyre range

[Mephistopheles]

The Artist..... the article seems to suggest they are are very near to getting the agreement they need from all eleven teams, and it they do that then there won't be an issue....

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I still believe Hembury is being disingenuous when he states that the de-laminations are not a safety issue, and would quite understand the FIA if they were to override Pirelli on that. It's also a bit rich of him to say that they are being caused by cuts from debris, as if that's someone else's problem, when the debris in question is coming off the very same tyres in the first place.

I can see why he would not want to admit that his company's tyres have a dangerous design flaw, but looking at that picture of Hamilton's Mercedes in the Sky Sports article, it's surely ludicrous to claim that such a failure does not compromise safety, just because the tyre did not deflate.

If that kind of de-lamination occurred at high speed into a fast corner during a race, possibly with another car alongside, the results could be unimaginably bad. We have merely been lucky so far that no serious incident has happened; that's no reason to assume that one won't and to continue with the status quo.

 

[The Artist.....]

Chad Stewarthill

I’ve not seen any verified confirmation that cuts are caused by discarded rubber; certainly that would be strange, given rubber tends to be soft and not very sharp! (I am perfectly prepared to be contradicted!)

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Hmm, @The Artist, now I'll have to look for the evidence to back up my claim, ha ha! I'm sure I heard or read that somewhere, it may even have been a quote from Hembury. If I find anything I'll post it otherwise I'll be prepared to admit that I'm wrong. Anyway, the stuff that the Pirelli tyres shed is far from soft round rubber balls. They are not only jagged, but might well be hardened by the 'heat treatment' they are subjected to. 'Marbles' is actually a misnomer and quite an insult to real marbles. Don't forget they are driving over these things at very high speed as well:

 

[The Artist.....]

Chad Stewarthill - Great photo! Where did you find that?? (I had read somewhere as well about people suggesting that tyre debris may have caused cuts, but the only place I'd read it was peoples' suppositions on here...) It is odd how many "cuts" there have been in tyres though in the last couple of races...

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

@The Artist it may just be my wrong assumption that the cuts are being caused by tyre debris rather than bodywork debris, but I have discovered two interesting things in my search for evidence:

1. Apparently, the likeliest cause of major delamination is incorrect tyre pressure, which could quite possibly result from a slow puncture caused by debris (of one sort or another).

2. Not all drivers are re-assured that the issue is not one of safety. Both Massa and Perez that I know of have expressed concerns in this department, and there may be others for all I know.

 

[snowy]

This seems to smack of the changes Pirelli wanting to make to the tyres are going ahead for Canada and not just on the safety issue. because if it were just on safety they wouldn't be seeking the agreement from all 11 teams.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1...re-changes-but-still-uncertain-over-F1-future

It seems to me that the reporter for Sky has mashed up two quite separate conversations. The extent of the change to the tyre on safety grounds doesn't necessarily demand the agreement of the teams. Otherwise the previous proposed changes would never have been entertained in the first place. It was intervention by the FIA that scuppered the performance changes not discord amongst the teams. Though as sure as eggs are eggs one of the teams flagged the problem with the rules being broken to the FIA.

 

[Bill Boddy]

When walking round circuits after races last year it was quite plain to see that the "marbles" were larger than in the Bridgestone days. However, it still seems to me that carbon fibre being very sharp is more likely to cut tyres than the marbles are.

 

[snowy]

There is a real lack of thought and investment in upkeep of the track during an F1 race weekend. In the States there are fleets of trucks with blowers that are deployed to clean the track between races and after accidents. It seems perfectly reasonable to have these types of vehicles at F1 accredited tracks rather than a couple of guys with brooms.

 

[Kewee]

snowy......The big difference snowy is they only run slicks in the States hence they only have to get a few drops of rain and the race is stopped, then when the weather clears the blowers are bought out to dry the track. The blowers are only used on the ovals also, so it's quite different to F1.

 

[snowy]

Perhaps they should think about vacuums...

 

[siffert_fan]

When walking round circuits after races last year it was quite plain to see that the "marbles" were larger than in the Bridgestone days. However, it still seems to me that carbon fibre being very sharp is more likely to cut tyres than the marbles are.

I agree. However, given the size of the so-called "marbles", it is quite conceivable that a car hitting one of them will fracture some carbon fiber bit or another and thereby drop some razor-sharp shard onto the tarmac, making a puncture more likely for following cars.

 

[Kewee]

Can't really call them marbles anymore. They're like mini chicanes.

 

[Fenderman]

Perhaps we should consider the fact that modern F1 tyres are a blend of natural and synthetic rubber. Since the compounds are a complex chemical mix it cannot be assumed that the marbles will necessarily be soft. Even natural rubber when subjected to repeated heat cycles can be reduced to a hardened state. Although unlikely as a causal agent, perhaps it is possible for a marble to be sharp enough to puncture a tyre that is already degraded and/or fallen off the cliff. It would be nice to get a definitive answer to that one.

 

[The Pits]

Interesting here from Gary Anderson

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22543884

 

[Mephistopheles]

I thought there were 82 pits stops?

 

[Fenderman]

I don't know what circuits Anderson was looking at but Catalunya lap times suggest a drop off of around 2 seconds a lap since 2010. Also, I am sure I was not alone among "fans" who have note been happy about the tyre thing long before teams and drivers piped up about it.

From Rootersport : http://cliptheapex.com/threads/rootersport.3653/page-4#post-198803


Quote "... The Spanish Grand Prix - a Recent History - In Stat's ...


2013
Pole: Nico Rosberg, Mercedes - 1:20.718
Fastest lap: Esteban Gutiérrez - Sauber-Ferrari - 1:26.217 (lap 56)
Winner: Fernando Alonso - race time: 1:39:16.596
Lapped everyone up to and including Daniel Ricciardo in 10th.
Weather: Sunny

2012
Pole: Pastor Maldonado - Williams-Renault - 1:22.285
Fastest lap Romain Grosjean - Lotus-Renault - 1:26.250 (lap 53)
Winner Pastor Maldonado - Williams-Renault - 1:39:09.145
Lapped everyone up to and including Nico Hulkenberg in 10th.
Weather: Partially cloudy, dry – air temperature 22 °C (72 °F) track temperature 35 °C (95°F), 6 °C (11 °F).

2011
Pole: Mark Webber - Red Bull-Renault - 1:20.981
Fastest lap: Lewis Hamilton - McLaren-Mercedes -1:26.727 (lap 52)
Winner: Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull-Renault – 1:39:03.301
Lapped everyone up to and including Alonso in 5th.
Weather: Mainly sunny,Fine and Dry, Air Temp 27 °C (81 °F), Track Temp 33 °C (91 °F) to 44 °C (111 °F)

2010
Pole: Mark Webber - Red Bull-Renault - 1:19.995
Fastest lap: Lewis Hamilton - McLaren-Mercedes - 1:24.357 (lap 59)
Winner: Mark Webber - Red Bull-Renault - 1:35:44.101
Lapped everyone up to and including Rubens Barrichello in 9th.
Weather: Mainly cloudy, dry

2009*
Pole: Jenson Button, Brawn-Mercedes - 1:20.527
Fastest lap: Rubens Barrichello, Brawn-Mercedes - 1:22.762(lap 28)
Winner: Jenson Button, Brawn-Mercedes - 1:37:19.202
Lapped everyone up to and including Lewis Hamilton in 9th.
Total race time included 4 lap Safety Car period
Weather: Warm, Sunny

2008
Pole: Kimi Räikkönen, Ferrari - 1:21.813
Fastest lap: Kimi Räikkönen - 1:21.670 (lap 46)
Winner: Kimi Räikkönen - 1:38:19.051
Lapped everyone up to and including 10th placed G Fisichella
Total race time included 4 lap Safety Car period
Weather: Sunny - air temperature 23 °C (73 °F), track temperature 38 °C (100 °F)

2007
Pole: Felipe Massa, Ferrari - 1:21.421
Fastest lap: Felipe Massa - 1:22.680 (lap 14)
Winner: Felipe Massa - 1:31:36.230**
Lapped everyone up to and including Takumo Sato in 8th.
Weather: Sunny and warm

Notes:
*Refuelling ban invoked for 2010 onward.
** 2007 First start aborted when Jarno Trulli (Toyota) stalled on grid, causing 2nd formation lap and race reduced to 65 laps.

Finally, just for laff's, 2006 Last season of before the rubbish track modification to the last corner

Pole: Fernando Alonso, Renault - 1:14.648
Fastest lap: Felipe Massa - 1:16.648 (lap 42)
Winner: Fernando Alonso - 1:26:21.759
Lapped everyone up to and including Mark Webber in 9th.

I know my conclusions, now draw your own ... " End quote

 

[Bill Boddy]

Considering how many rule changed there have been to try to slow the cars down there doesn't seem to be much difference between the last four races. One thing that may have happened is that Red Bull seem to have lost some pace.

 

[Fenderman]

I have a little difficulty with the "trying to slow the cars down" aim.As far as I know (and of course I could be totally mistaken and stand to be corrected) that has not been a stated aim of FIA rule changes for quite some time. It's also a tad incongruous to instigate devices that boost speed such as the DRS, KERS and ERS if slowing cars down is an intent.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

What's ERS Fenders?