2021 Concept Cars

I argued in this post:

Technical - The Lotus, The Comet and the myth of “Trickle Down” Technology

F1 has followed motoring trends throughout its history and has very rarely set trends. I believe the cars really should push what is technically possible but, this won't happen for 3 reasons.

1) It would cost too much
2) The tracks couldn't handle faster cars
3) It would require much more freedom of regulation.
 
Trickle down from F1 in the motoring realm is mostly marketing, e.g. powered by f1.

Technical trickle down falls mostly outside, medical sensors being a key that i can think of, although I'm not sure regarding battery and hybrid tech.

Regulation change would be necessary to allow innovation which could trickle down. Failing that, try the homologation route.
 
Screenshot_20210712-232747_Facebook.jpg
 
Does it disturb others on here that the regulations are now so restrictive the rule makers can produce a model of the car? I'm of an age when you used to get excited about new F1 cars to see what the designers had come up with, now the best we can hope for is Scarbs tweeting a picture of a 2cm piece of carbon fibre attached to the bottom left panel of car X, whilst Car Y has has a 2.5cm piece attached to the bottom right.

If F1 is going to be a spec. series then be honest about it and tells the fans so we know what we are watching.

Utter crap!
 
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Also - why does no one talk about the ban on testing and the constant changing of car concept being an issue? We got a new set of rules that were going to fix everything a few years back which resulted in one team getting it right and being miles ahead. The restricting on testing made it impossible for the other teams to catch up quickly, they have now just about done it and, guess what? Rules are being changed again.

This has been a constant cycle since 2009.
 
FB you saying about spec series, has the technology getting better every year has made all the cars look the same anyway. if you gave all the drivers on the grid the same white paint job. i dont think anyone could point out specific cars.

RasputinLives yeah the constant changing of rules are annoying but surely 2 wrongs dont make a right & we all know how incompetent FIA & Teams were in making these rules because they sent a questionnaire out & fans said we want less downforce, so cars can follow. they went what was that more downforce so they can follow less

yes we risking another brawn or mercedes in 2022. but i think that is a risk F1 had to take, we have to get rid of the dirty air. because then in long run we are better shape. because F1 couldnt carry on like we do. F1 is getting embarrassed at some circuits where overtaking is easy in other series but tough in F1

from 2015 onwards we havent a title decider & when you think that F1 had 6 in previous 9 yrs. this will hopefully return it to its glory days & end of paint drying races. as it cant be coincidence that 8-10 of the worst F1 races ive ever watched have taken place in the last 4 yrs
 
I predict we will have one dominant team for about the next 3 seasons with another team getting slightly closer as the years go on. By that time they'll be so many complaints about how F1 is 'boring' they'll be doing another rule change.

I agree what you say about dirty air but testing and development is just a big a key to close racing.
 
but testing and development is just a big a key to close racing.
but doesnt that come to money, as ive mentioned before wiliams won 1992 titles for 35m 1997 titles for 50m McLaren won 1998 titles for 60m, before the budget cap only 20yrs later you were talking 300m, because F1 team decisions are the most selfish in sport. they would rather be winning in sport that is dying, than risk being 2nd in a sport than can be healthily.
 
I'm sure there are lots of other areas they could restrict that would save far more money than testing.

If they had regular testing session straight after GPs at the circuit they've been racing on that weekend then everyone is already at the venue anyways. On top of which it would give younger drivers far more track time so when they do get a race seat they don't have such a steep learning curve.

You can't expect teams to catch up if they have no way of working on things other than race weekends. If you look back to the 90s teams could be nowhere at start of the season but really fined tuned their car to get them into play by mid season. Doesn't happen anymore - and let's not even get into what happened to Honda bless em.
 
hopefully that these testings can return, it would help alot of drivers. it certainly helped lewis, vettel & alonso 3 of the best drivers of the current generation. but dont they now use simulators instead
 
but doesnt that come to money, as ive mentioned before wiliams won 1992 titles for 35m 1997 titles for 50m McLaren won 1998 titles for 60m, before the budget cap only 20yrs later you were talking 300m, because F1 team decisions are the most selfish in sport. they would rather be winning in sport that is dying, than risk being 2nd in a sport than can be healthily.
Williams spent 35 million in 1992 because they had 35 million to spend. Because Dear Old Bernie increased the amount of money swilling around the sport, teams had more money and spent more money.

In 1991/1992 the two biggest teams in F1 (Williams and McLaren) were owned by Frank Williams and Ron Dennis.

In 2021/2022 the two biggest teams in F1 are Mercedes, two thirds owned by Daimler AG and Ineos (total combined revenue over 200 billion pounds) and Red Bull Racing owned by Red Bull GMBH with a total revenue of over 5 billion pounds but one of the largest sports franchise owners in the world.

Money is no object.

I'm all for cost capping but how it's going to be effectively policed is beyond me. We've already seen the effect that running mule cars to test engines. Honda finally got onboard with the idea and all of a sudden they're reliable and fast. What's to stop Mercedes meeting the cost cap but running several interesting project cars around a German airfield at 4 in the morning?

As for designs, the quickest path for most smaller teams is to take a picture of a faster rival and build that.

As FB has succinctly put it, design innovation is limited to six square inches of carbon fibre stuck on here or there.

I've always wondered, if you gave the F1 rules to a designer who had never seen an F1 car before, what would the resulting design look like?

Years ago I posted a piece about how F1 development has always tended to follow automotive innovation rather than lead it. This still remains the case to this day. Road relevant technology by car manufacturers is an absolute myth. It's more likely that when manufacturers call for rules that are road relevant it means they can incorporate technology that they already have in their car designs into their F1 design rather than the other way around.

If the rules allowed it, what would the next great leap forward be? Aerodynamics haven't changed since 1978 (front wing, rear wing and shaped body under and over), sports cars these days are routinely made from carbon fibre and have all the toys that are banned on F1 cars. The only area left is engine development but that would require a brave rule maker and carefully managed equivalency regulations.
 
its very good point. & also would the answer to the question F1 rules to non F1 designer be an evolution of red bull x2010

i think F1 are going down the entertainment route now. because they have too, because i love development corner as much as anyone & james allison braking down the updates on the car. but very few people remember what the cars look like but they remember what car race like. nobody in Bahrain was saying yeah that 10 lap duel between 2 expected title contenders was alright but did you see verstappen front wing. & ive found nothing papers over cracks like a fantastic race

overreilance on manufacturers is were F1 has gone downhill abit because currently theyve hiked up the budget 9 fold in 30yrs. so we are in silly situations when a manufacturer can pull out when they want leaving a trail of destruction because its too expensive for a privateers & too expensive even for honda. so we taken terrible decisions as we could afford to lose them
 
Bernie had to bring in manufacturers because he'd turned F1 into the sporting equivalent of a Ponzi scheme.

All revenue streams now point to FOM. Trackside advertising - FOM, Race hosting fees - FOM, TV payments - FOM and so on and so on. Taking that much money out but putting almost nothing back in means that the money has to come in somewhere. Race day tickets barely generate enough revenue to warrant holding a race. Hence manufacturers are brought in for whom cost spends are no real object providing they're successful or can use F1 as promotional fodder to increase sales.

Apart from Adrian Newey, the days of the designer being as well known as the team principal are long gone. If I asked anyone the question "apart form Adrian Newey, name 10 formula one designers, if there was a single name from the last decade I'd be shocked.

RasputinLives made a great point. Even if you had a team with the bravery to try a massively different approach to a design, they can't test it apart from using a computer and as Nick Wirth found out, that simply isn't good enough to provide accurate data.

The only way to create innovation is to reward innovation.

Webber made a decent point on the C4 commentary yesterday which was about the genuine battle between Verstappen and Hamilton. There's no one neutralising the race with a third to go, telling team mates to hold position. It's now win or bust. It's only taken 8 years for a team to challenge Merc.

Look at the difference in design evolution and the number of different title winners in any Pre FIA FOM commercial rights handover and look at it now.
 
cider_and_toast no surprise that bernie has brought this. because we always said that bernie built the sport well for 25 yrs & then proceed to dismantle it for next 15 yrs

its a disappointment that designers have been phased out

but from what ive been reading the handover was in 1995. hadnt F1 just come off dominant previous decade. as hadnt mclaren won 84 85 86 88 89 90 91 titles then williams & benetton dominance in 92 & 93 then 94 & 95

but this is what new rules are designed for to get more competition in the long run. bring it closer together. i think like WEC its a step F1 has to take because we cant carry on like we have been
 
mclaren won 84 85 86 88 89 90 91

84 - Lauda won by 1/2 a point on the last day of the season

85 - Relatively comfortable win for Prost

86 - There were 4 drivers in it until the end and at the last race any one of three could have won it. Mansell's exploding tyre and Piquet's precautionary stop handing the title to Prost

88 - McLaren walkover but they had the best Turbo on the grid by miles and 2/3 of the grid had normally aspirated engines. At least we had the Senna, Prost Battle.

89 - Decided in the penultimate race when Prost and Senna came together

90 - Decided in the final race when Prost and Senna came together

91 - Looked easy for Senna due to early Williams unreliability but got closer at the end.

How many championship in the last 10 years have gone to the last two races of the season?
 
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