Top 10 Drivers of the season

[Lewywo4]

Unfortunately for Lewis at Silverstone while leading both Vettel by 2.1 seconds and Nico by 4.7 seconds after 8 laps, to have his tire explode, and ending his chance for a possible win at home.

My top ten

1. Vettel
2. Alonso
3. Hamilton
4. Hulkenberg
5. Grojean
6. Rosberg
7. Raikkonen
8. Ricciardo
9. Button
10. Bottas

 

[Mephistopheles]

I don't think it was unfortunate as exploding tyres were a common theme of the British GP and teams were setting the cars up beyond the tyres limits and even switching left and right rears so part Pirelli's fault and part teams fault but not unfortunate, because that would make it beyond any ones control which it wasn't.

 

[FB]

Autocourse rates the Top 10 as:

1. Vettel
2. Alonso
3. Hamilton
4. Rosberg
5. Raikkonen
6. Grosjean
7. Hulkenberg
8. Webber
9. Button
10. Ricciardo

So that was Tony Dodgins opinion.

 

[Plutus]

My Top 10:

01. Sebastian Vettel - Who else?
02. Fernando Alonso
03. Nico Hulkenberg - a difficult choice between Alo/ Hul. I rated Alonso higher because he has been more consistent over the last seasons.
04. Lewis Hamilton - refurbished Hamilton, just like 2007.
05. Nico Rosberg - if there was anymore proof needed that he belongs to the best, he has proven it this year.
06. Kimi Raikkonen
07. Romain Grosjean - good results came too late.
08. Bottas
09. Ricciardo - does need to up his race pace though if he wants to keep up with Vettel
10. Button

My bottom 5:
Pastor Maldonado - .....
Felipe Massa - poor season once again.
Mark Webber - same goes for this bloke, at least he has retired.
Charles Pic - couldn't fulfil my expectations after a good year season last year when he raced alongside Timo Glock
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Max Chilton - I'm not into conspiracy theories but I am fairly sure Narain Karthikeyan has had a face transplant.

 

[Bushi]

1. Vettel
2. Alonso
3. Hulkenberg
4. Hamilton
5. Raikkonen
6. Grosjean
7. Rosberg
8. Bianchi
9. Button
10. Webber

 

[Mephistopheles]

This is not my top ten but the top ten based on your top ten so far including autocourse.

In the case of Grosjean and Rosberg they both have 3 votes of position 6 but Grosjean claims it at the moment because of count back i.e for 5th they've both got 2 for 4th they Romain got got 2 Nico got 1 for 3rd Romain 0 Nico 1 and for 2nd Grosjean got 2 and Rosberg 0

So all very scientific and shit....

1. Vettel everyone's choice
2. Alonso 6 votes so far
3. Hulkenberg
4. Hamilton
5. Raikkonen
6. Grosjean
7. Rosberg
8. Bottas
9. Button
10. Ricciardo

Well I'm bored init....

 

[Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime]

DISCLAIMER: for those who voted Raikkonen higher than Grosjean, this is not directed at you.

There is clearly a lot more sentiment than common sense on these lists. I think Grosjean did a great job - relative to last year. But last year Grosjean had a year that could have got him fired with some justification. So we're comparing this year's reasonable performance with a dog show.

The guy has a few, perhaps several, good races, and now people are talking him up and ranking his year as better than Raikkonen? He's been completely dominated in every facet that counts, and yet somehow, being within 100 points of your team-mate means you've actually performed better?

Wow, I think this forum must be full of old people because your memories are shocking. Grosjean was nowhere in the first half of the season, in a car that Raikkonen was bringing home on the podium.

Lotus have a genuine reason to feel aggrieved for not finishing higher in the constructor's championship. Raikkonen is a quick boy, but he is not the quickest that has ever been. Conclusion? The Lotus was an excellent car, second best to the Red Bull over the season in my opinion, but they finish 4th in the championship. Who didn't keep their end up? Well,don't point at Raikkonen (okay, maybe point a little bit considering he went walkabout in the end).

Is Grosjean worth the money he has cost Lotus in lost constructor's points? I say no. He's performed well because the car was generally fecking quick, as evidenced by his team-mate. At this level of the game, making very few mistakes is an expectation of the job.

So well done Grosjean for managing to eventually do the things you were supposed to be doing a year ago.

Incidentally, my ranking of the drivers:

1. Vettel
2 - 21. Everybody else
22. Max Chilton

 

[Fenderman]

Frankly I too am surprised at the high ranking of RoGro since all he did was survive in one of the faster cars of the season. I also happen to be one of the elderly members on Clip so kindly keep your discriminatory ageist sentiments to yourself.

 

[FB]

I rated Grosjean higher than Raikkonen as he didn't throw a hissy fit and refuse to drive in the last few races of the season. F1 drivers have driven with far worse than a bad back and I think this demonstrated that Kimi's motivation is somewhat lacking. It'll be interesting to see how Kimi reacts if Alonso starts to woop his butt.

 

[RasputinLives]

A few decent races? Grosjean whopped Kimi's butt from Spa onwards as Kimi put in poor qualifying performance after poor qualifying performance which meant he got stuck behind slow opposition and therefore didn't put to best use a car which was clearly quicker than it was.

On more than one occasion in 2013 we saw Grosjean mixing it up with the Red Bulls for the entire race and keeping Mr Vettel honest. Other than a couple of late shows when he's gained off a safety car I can't say that about Kimi.

Yes we all remember his poor first half of the season but we all also witnessed what was happening at the end of the year. Vettel in a class of his own, followed by Grosjean followed by the rest all having a whinge. Also add in bonus points for RoGro humbley moving out the way for Kimi at the British GP whilst Kimi nearly took him off the track when the roles are reversed.

So sorry I stand by Grosjean being above Kimi. I would suggest Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime that your user name suggest you aren't able to look at this objectivly.

 

[Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime]

I would suggest Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime that your user name suggest you aren't able to look at this objectivly.

Whipped his butt? Get real mate.

Also, get you facts straight before you tell me I'm being subjective. I do not appreciate that type of accusation, nor your childish retort made to me at a personal level. You do not have to like my opinion, but that type of disrespect is the reason I do not normally engage on forums. It is a completely throwaway statement made with no evidence whatsoever beyond your own insinuations.

Go back and look at the Kimi Raikkonen pay incident thread and see what I had to say about him. I was perhaps the most outspoken person on that thread against his behaviour. It really disenchanted me. Go and look to see what I think of him overall. Read every comment. I challenge you to defend your statement on the basis of evidence.

I'm no sycophant, and I do not place Kimi on a pedestal defending his behaviour which is slightly more than can be said of many others who blindly defend their 'champions'. I admire his racing when he is on it, but that is it. Most often I try to call a spade a spade.

As for Romain whipping Raikkonen, that is simply laughable. My points tally from Spa onwards is 65 - 49 in Romain's favour when both guys pitched up and drove. I.e. not including the last two races. If you take into account reliability, Romain scored those points from 6 races, Raikkonen from 5. So now Romain's points average is down to the 10.83 per finish and Raikkonen's is 9.8?

Yes, what a thrashing. If you produce a narrow enough sample, I'm sure you can show that James Anderson is a better fast bowler than Dale Steyn, that Colin Montgomery was better than Tiger Woods, that Tim Henman was better than Roger Federer. Will anyone believe you?

All this shows is that people, when gauging their top driver's of the year, are more interested in the 'way in which it happened', as opposed to 'what actually happened'. Which is perfectly fine, and fair because the opinion is yours. But, if you don't like hearing opinion contrary to your own, then don't start slinging mud.

When Raikkonen dropped it was 183 vs.105 in his favour. Double that tally. That's right - it's almost Sebastian's points tally (399) measured against Mark's (199), or something fairly similar. That is the magnitude of the difference. It is real, measurable, huge.

Grosjean had a fine year, but there is no way he ranks higher than his teammate, when the teammate - irrespective of whoever he may have been - outscores him by 51 points without having participated in 2 of the races.

 

[F1Yorkshire]

The difference is that Kimi was expected to perform well seeing as he is a multiple world champion. Grosjean was known as the crash kid and there wasn't much expected from him this season. Kimi performed worse than his expectations, Grosjean exceeded his. That's the simple reason why people have placed him higher than his world champion team mate.

 

[teabagyokel]

I would suggest Grosjean had a better 2012 than you give him credit for Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime. The Vettel/Webber comparison is a very selective reading of number as well.

However, I know when compiling my list, finishing ahead of one's team-mate was something I very much considered. Grosjean was a significant margin more impressive than Webber in general, and his run from Germany onwards was impressive and consistent.

Part of the problem with rating the drivers this season is the sense of a season of two halves caused by the tyre changes, which very much created a different set of drivers on top in each half. A top 10 written after the British Grand Prix would see Raikkonen, di Resta, Vergne and Alonso rated a lot higher, while a top 10 considering only Germany onwards would be eulogising Grosjean, Hulkenburg, Ricciardo and Perez a lot more?

Grosjean still needs to string a whole season together, criticism of Raikkonen's motivation can be significantly be mitigated by his lack of a wage.

 

[Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime]

I would suggest Grosjean had a better 2012 than you give him credit for @Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime.

Actually, I said he had a great year, TWICE!

I think Grosjean did a great job - relative to last year

Grosjean had a fine year

Also, I thought we were dealing with 2013? If you're going to try and suggest Grosjean had a decent 2012, please motivate that statement.

I have never stated his year was bad. What I have repeatedly said is that in spite of his achievements, his improvement relative to last year notwithstanding, he still wasn't better than Raikkonen where it matters.

The difference is that Kimi was expected to perform well seeing as he is a multiple world champion. Grosjean was known as the crash kid and there wasn't much expected from him this season. Kimi performed worse than his expectations, Grosjean exceeded his. That's the simple reason why people have placed him higher than his world champion team mate.

So this begs three questions. What exactly is expected of Raikkonen? Literally, what is the level of expectation? 1st place every year, second every year, 3rd? Is that justified? He couldn't manage that type of thing when he was at McLaren or Ferrari, but you expected better when he drives for what looked clearly a lesser team when he arrived? As an older, more jaded person arriving after a 2 year hiatus? That's just irrational.

Second point, Raikkonen has a single world championship - and a lucky one at that. In another universe he might have had some better luck and won another, but on the balance of things, 1 championship seems about right.

Thirdly, this type of system of rewards is really nonsensical. Expect nothing from X; X goes racing for a season and does better than nothing, therefore exceeds expectations. X has therefore achieved by default. Now, from Y you expect everything, or at least a great deal. Y achieves those expectations within margin for error. Somehow, X is better than Y, even though Y beat X in an absolute sense. It seems the great trick Grosjean has played here is being able to be given a drive after a season during which he lowered your collective expectation to the point where you had none at all.

Do you another reason why Romain might not deserve to be ahead of Raikkonen on this list? It deals with your last point about expectation. You see, from the perspective of expectation, I think Romain is actually quicker than Raikkonen. Qualifying and practice session data would support this theory. So somewhere along the line, in spite of the great performances of the latter part of the season, Romain has not achieved his potential. Team orders have caused some of the loss, but not all. And for that reason as well as everything else, I would not place him higher than his team-mate.

 

[Il_leone]

anyone got Autosport's top 10 or Mark Hughes' top 10 rankings then

I still think Kimi deserves no higher than 5 because he was good in parts. People mentioned his slump from Silverstone when the tyres went to the old spec but he's got more experience than Grosjean to deal with changing tyres.

His performances were slightly more consistent than the Mercedes whose 1 lap speed did not count for much on race day

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no-FIAt-please Hulkenberg was up there with the Ferrari's at Monza, and Suzuka. He would have had good points at Abu Dhabi if it were not for a problem.
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Webber if you analysed drove actual a better tactical race in Malaysia until the race was stolen from him by Vettel. He was on the podium 5 times in the last 8 rounds
- he drove very well in Suzuka until surprisingly he was asked to do a 3 stop strategy which left him behind Grosjean and unable to challenge Vettel ( team conspiracy), he had to retire from 2nd in India when close to Vettel

He would probably just sneak into the top 10

Massa -

---------------his qualifying was more impressive than in previous seasons to Alonso which suggests he could still extract more out of the car for 1 lap than Fernando - you can;t have it both ways if people say Ricciardo is in the top 10 because he can get it into the top 10 on Saturday but does nothing on SUnday



Bottom 5
1 Maldonado - if it was not his sponsors he would be out of F1
2.Pic - did not really move up
3.Chilton - steady but nothing else if you want him to finish the race
4.Sutil - his form nosedived as the season went and for blocking Hamilton twice by making it a personal agenda
5.Gutierrez - tough baptism against Hulkenberg and he found it tough going

 

[Il_leone]

I know some people will feel Kimi's was shafted by his team ... his beef is with Genii capital not team Enstone which it actually transcended to

His moves in Korea and india where he was very robust on Grosjean which lead to some tensed moments within the team. He should not be taking his frustration on his team really because some of the engineers were in the same predicament as him or even worse about getting paid and supporting their families

 

[RasputinLives]

Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime please don't come in here swinging the 'old codgers at Clip the Apex must have short memories' axe and then suggest I'm being childish for indicating that maybe your name indicates which side of the argument you come down on.

You're a fan and think Kimi did better. Thats your opinion and your entitled to it but you can't blame us for thinking you're a little bit biased. If a user called @GrosjeanisGreat posted that RoGro did better you'd think the exact same thing.

 

[teabagyokel]

Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime - You suggested that his 2012 was a "dog show", which is entirely unfair, it was a solid debut year spoiled somewhat by a tendency to hit people on lap one. The first half of 2013 was, however, appalling.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Blimey some young people don't 'alf bang on don't they....

 

[teabagyokel]

I'll leave this here without comment: