The Red Bull KERS system

[sportsman]

I'm confused by this story, as my understanding was that the energy recovery is supposed to be taken from braking and then, subsequently, used for extra power/revs/acceleration, or whatever!

How can this tally with a car starting on the grid with a fully charged KERS unit.

The race hasn't started yet (the lap to the grid isn't part of the race?) so no energy can have been recovered; surely the KERS should be fully discharged when the lights go out at the start of the race!

I know the claim now is that RBR didn't have it fitted (or connected) but, if they had, then how could it be legal ....
.... and if everybody else is doing it then it just doesn't sound like it should be allowed.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-publi...LE/1-2011 SPORTING REGULATIONS 10-12-2010.pdf 34) POST QUALIFYING PARC FERMÉ
34.1 Each car will be deemed to be in parc fermé from the time at which it leaves the pit lane for the first time
during qualifying practice until the start of the race. Any car which fails to leave the pit lane during
qualifying practice will be deemed to be in parc fermé at the end of Q1.
Between these times, other than when cars are returned to the parc fermé overnight, the following work
may be carried out :
- charging and / or discharging of the KERS energy storage devices ;

 

[sportsman]

Horner simply fooled everyone.Redb Bull run the same KERS system as Renault.
The problem that Red Bull have is that due to their car design they have problems dealing with the heat generated by the KERS unit.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90310 Red Bull Racing boss Christian Horner thinks his team will need to get its KERS up and running in the Malaysian Grand Prix if it wants to maintain its winning start to the season.
Reliability issues with its hybrid power system in practice for the Australian Grand Prix resulted in the team electing to disengage it for the remainder of the weekend - although its absence made little difference to the strong speed of the car
Horner said he was also amused by the speculation that had run around the paddock suggesting his team had a lightweight start-only KERS system.
"You guys [the media] went off on a great little tangent, but the problem is that you have probably made Adrian [Newey] think of that one now! I can blame you lot for that then."

 

[snowy]

Post Race Press conference:

Q: And KERS?
SV: Yeah. I mean, what do you want to know?
Q: Did you use it?
SV: I don’t know which source you have, so it could be quite a challenge for you to find out. I don’t
know, so maybe I keep it for myself.
Q: Okay, that is your privilege.
SV: I was pressing some buttons, yes.

 

[Brogan]

I think Red Bull think they're being clever or smart with all this subterfuge.

 

[teabagyokel]

I think Red Bull think they're being clever or smart with all this subterfuge.

I think they are.

 

[KekeTheKing]

They tried it on Friday, weren't happy with something, took it off on Saturday and left it off. Where did the Mini-KERS / Start-Line KERS stuff even start?

They will pay the price at Sepang if they don't have KERS fitted though, especially on the run down to Turn 1 at the Start. (crosses fingers)

 

[F1Yorkshire]

It was Horner and his usual mis-information campaign. He said the system they were using was more beneficial at the start than at any other time.

I think the large gap at the start of the race was down to Hamilton having a poor start rather than the Red Bull having some form of launch control or whatever all the rumours were.

 

[KekeTheKing]

I think the large gap at the start of the race was down to Hamilton having a poor start rather than the Red Bull having some form of launch control or whatever all the rumours were.

Without a doubt. And I think KERS saved Hamilton from getting passed by Webber there as well.

And by the way, I blame the BBC, for needing to talk to Horner seemingly before and after every session.

 

[Jen]

And by the way, I blame the BBC, for needing to talk to Horner seemingly before and after every session.

Off topic, I know - but Little Jack does seem to figure quite predominately on all of the BBC's coverage - extremely irritating, as he is not the most engaging man

 

[teabagyokel]

It seems he makes himself available for interviews more than some, and he's the team principal of the favourites. Martin Whitmarsh appears more often than John Booth, too!

 

[Jen]

It seems he makes himself available for interviews more than some, and he's the team principal of the favourites. Martin Whitmarsh appears more often than John Booth, too!

I suspect PR for the sponsors is the name of the game

 

[FB]

You cynical lot, he's team manager of the the reigning World Drivers & Constructors Championship winners. His team are the class of the field and his No1 driver had just won the first Grand Prix of 2011 In previous years Ron Dennis used to be interviewed quite regularly, TBY's mate Flavio used to fill the screen in the mid noughties, Stefano Domenicalli graces our screens quite often and I seem to recall Mike Gascoyne popping up quite regularly last season. Of course the BBC are going to want to talk him.

Next you'll be moaning about Brundle trying to catch Bernie at every race. I'm pleased to hear from these people, far more interesting than Anthony Hamilton and John Button.

 

[Pyrope]

One thing that interests me is the widespread assertion that 'KERS is worth 0.3-0.5s a lap'. The question that arises from Red Bull's little pantomime (good on 'em for the sense of humour) is: compared to what?

Removing the KERS unit frees up both space and weight to move the rest of the internals around. Specifically, the KERS cooling systems mostly seem to be mounted atop the fuel cell (about at driver head level) and the batteries and motor mounted in a recess within same. Converting your bulky, difficult to package KERS into neat, compact lead plates which you can put anywhere will allow you to move that mass almost down to the reference plane, well below wheel hub height. The extra space will then allow your fuel cell to be lowered too, again shifting weight down. Then you have the kinetic losses that merely having a KERS system attached to your crankshaft and gearbox will entail. No matter how well designed, when not engaged the KERS units must be sapping a few bhp just through frictional losses.

KERS only has a benefit during acceleration a couple of times a lap. It has no effect on ultimate top power toward the end of a straight (so no actual top speed benefit) unless the driver saves it for that (in which case they lose the acceleration benefit). Perhaps being 2-5 kph faster through each and every corner and having an extra 5-10 bhp available all the time can make up for the power boost benefit at some tracks. It certainly seemed to in Melbourne, especially through the final sector with all its lower speed twists and turns. Newey has always been a chassis and aero guy, so perhaps RBR decided not to compromise cornering performance in the end. Just a thought...

 

[Pyrope]

On a second, and more conspiratorial, note perhaps RBR just disconnected Mark's KERS but fully removed Seb's? That might explain a large chunk of the time that Seb had in hand. Now that really is speculation for you!

 

[teabagyokel]

TBY's mate Flavio used to fill the screen in the mid noughties

Fill being the appropriate word.

 

[sportsman]

KERS batteries are usually located below the fuel tank well below the centre line.The motor/generator is mounted alongside the engine.KERS control units are normally mounted in the sidepods as they do require extra cooling.

 

[Pyrope]

From what I've seen of Scarbs's photos and diagrams, at least the McLaren has its KERS cooling mounted higher...

and no matter where you locate your KERS mechanicals they still won't be as low as a lead plate bolted to the floor. Certainly some components intrude into the fuel cell space (which is, after all, fairly flexible in its location), as seen in this generic diagram...

I'm not saying that the effects would be huge, but any car running with 40kg of bulky weight in compromised locations compared to 40kg of dense, heavy floor is going to be slower through the corners.

 

[KekeTheKing]

and his No1 driver had just won the first Grand Prix of 2011

This was the appropriate time for an interview. He could finally be forthright when asked about the KERS.

It was the six other BBC interviews that led to the mass speculation about the RBR KERS unit, or lack-thereof.

And don't worry FB, I always get a laugh out of Bernie.

 

[sportsman]

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=43224
On the subject ok KERS, Newey revealed that the team had hoped to use it but opted not to in the wake of reliability issues. However, the Austrian outfit hopes to run the system in Malaysia.
"If we feel it's reliable then we will try to race it," he said. "We will have to make that decision on Friday evening (in Malaysia). KERS is a benefit off the start line. So even if you are on the front row, without KERS there's a risk that you won't be first into the first corner."

 

[ramilas1]

Thanks sportsman, I guessed there might be some obscure rule allowing it.

a bit like this ...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzfiBMRDc5Y

Still think fully charged KERS should not be allowed on the start line!