The McLaren is faster than the Red Bull
- Thread starter Brogan
- Start date
I'm not sure I follow you tby. Are you saying that Red Bull was faster in Quali last year compared to the race, similar to the fashion they are this year, making Hughes' conclusions incorrect?
Just looking for a clarification.
J
johnnoble1990
Guest
Red Bull were definitely faster last year in Quali than the race.
Was that question rhetorical Keke?
Yes, but this year they seem much faster in qualifying against the other teams compared to last year, and slower in the race.
J
johnnoble1990
Guest
The general opinion is that has something to do with DRS. That could be interesting here in Monaco where there is not many places to use it.
I'm not doubting that Pirelli/DRS/KERS have an effect on Red Bull's relative qualifying and race pace.
However, Red Bull in 2010 were always faster relative to the rest of the field in qualifying than in the race. For example, Webber was eight-tenths up on Lewis Hamilton in British GP qualifying, but finished only 1.3 seconds in front of the Englishman.
Thus the problem cannot be conceived only in terms of 2011, it is a long standing effect. I feel everyone is too quick to assume that everything on track is caused by the regulation changes regardless if the effect has not changed over the winter.
However, Red Bull in 2010 were always faster relative to the rest of the field in qualifying than in the race. For example, Webber was eight-tenths up on Lewis Hamilton in British GP qualifying, but finished only 1.3 seconds in front of the Englishman.
Thus the problem cannot be conceived only in terms of 2011, it is a long standing effect. I feel everyone is too quick to assume that everything on track is caused by the regulation changes regardless if the effect has not changed over the winter.
Hello guys, long time no speak. My feelings on this matter are as follows:
The RBR is the quicker car than the McLaren in both quali and race trim. The quali advantage is further exagerated by a number of factors:
I beleive DC had it wrong in Spain. Just because Hamilton caught Vettel does not therefore mean the McLaren was faster. I think it does mean that Hamilton was better. He pushed that McLaren further than any other driver could. These drivers are not robots. Just because one car catches another does not mean its down to the relative pace of the machinery.
Whatever people say, you do not just loose a 1s advantage from Sat to Sun. Hamilton drove better, managed his tyres better and so caught Vettel. DC's post race attitude, as normal, tried to remove all credit from Hamilton, and give it all to Vettel. Sorry DC but your rose tinted RBR specs are a joke.
A furtehr note - Everyone seemed to agree that Buttons 3 stop strategy was the optimum strategy, faster than the 4 stop. Yet Hamilton still finished 35s ahead of his teammate? That reallys tells you everything about Hamiltons performance in Barcelona.
The RBR is the quicker car than the McLaren in both quali and race trim. The quali advantage is further exagerated by a number of factors:
- The RBR is able to turn its tyres on quicker and gets the most out of them than any other team.
- The RBR DRS system gives a greater advantage. This couples with the higher downforce levels of the RBR, allowing them to have it open for longer than the McLaren in a quali lap.
- The engine mapping of the RBR for the EBD is again greater than that of the McLaren (if the 10% off throttle rule comes in, I beleive we will see the RBR loose some of its quali advantage)
I beleive DC had it wrong in Spain. Just because Hamilton caught Vettel does not therefore mean the McLaren was faster. I think it does mean that Hamilton was better. He pushed that McLaren further than any other driver could. These drivers are not robots. Just because one car catches another does not mean its down to the relative pace of the machinery.
Whatever people say, you do not just loose a 1s advantage from Sat to Sun. Hamilton drove better, managed his tyres better and so caught Vettel. DC's post race attitude, as normal, tried to remove all credit from Hamilton, and give it all to Vettel. Sorry DC but your rose tinted RBR specs are a joke.
A furtehr note - Everyone seemed to agree that Buttons 3 stop strategy was the optimum strategy, faster than the 4 stop. Yet Hamilton still finished 35s ahead of his teammate? That reallys tells you everything about Hamiltons performance in Barcelona.
Wow, MD lives!
I agree with most of what you said, but I actually do think that a 3-stopper was the right call for Jenson. Four stops flat-out was ultimately the quicker way to run the race though.
Good to have you back.
PS- Grizzly beat me to the Jenson observation.
I agree with most of what you said, but I actually do think that a 3-stopper was the right call for Jenson. Four stops flat-out was ultimately the quicker way to run the race though.
Good to have you back.
PS- Grizzly beat me to the Jenson observation.
Excellent insights, Major. This is why teams scramble for downforce with such zeal - having lots of it makes everything so much easier.
Yesterday's Autosport (Mark Hughes, I think) noted that McLaren had changed their car setup philosophy somewhat in Spain - before qualifying, setting them up to understeer in order to produce a more neutral handling balance over the course of the race.
Yesterday's Autosport (Mark Hughes, I think) noted that McLaren had changed their car setup philosophy somewhat in Spain - before qualifying, setting them up to understeer in order to produce a more neutral handling balance over the course of the race.
Hi Major, good to see you back.
I agree about DC's comments, and about the relative pace of the two Mclarens. After all; ok, Button made a poor start, but Lewis was stuck behind Alonso as well for the first two stints, and immediately after Jenson had got past the Ferrari he was still just less than a pit stop behind Lewis I think. So with Lewis now cruising up to the back of Vettel, and with Button in clear air, Lewis extended his lead over Jenson by about another 15 seconds.
Anyway, that race is history now and tomorrow's a new day.
Excitement building now, can't wait for the race to start.
I agree about DC's comments, and about the relative pace of the two Mclarens. After all; ok, Button made a poor start, but Lewis was stuck behind Alonso as well for the first two stints, and immediately after Jenson had got past the Ferrari he was still just less than a pit stop behind Lewis I think. So with Lewis now cruising up to the back of Vettel, and with Button in clear air, Lewis extended his lead over Jenson by about another 15 seconds.
Anyway, that race is history now and tomorrow's a new day.
Excitement building now, can't wait for the race to start.
Yeah, just about. And no thanks to my new job
Good to have you back.
Thanks fellers
Cant have you all forgetting about me now can I 
Edit:
Wow, I just got this
What a lovely surprise
That means mine shouldn't be far away, as I'm pretty sure I came over here not long after you.Wow, I just got this
What a lovely surprise
Loving your avatar btw
That means mine shouldn't be far away, as I'm pretty sure I came over here not long after you.
Loving your avatar btw
39 days Chad, I'm some way off that
Bushi
Race Winner
I believe the Mclaren's are better in race trim. Not Lewis but the Mclaren in general is better on the tyres.
Red Bull has always been quick in qualifying, maybe because they tune the fumes from the engine to 100% and they can't do that in the race because of fuel problems.
Webber was 3.5 seconds away from Button in the final part of the race on fresher tyres, yet by the end of the race he was 12 seconds away from Button.
Paddy Lowe even agrees that the McLaren has been faster in race trim in the last two races -
http://sport.uk.msn.com/f1/news/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=158160079
http://sport.uk.msn.com/f1/news/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=158160079
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