Suzuka 2009

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Valued Member
I don't believe the conspiracy theories going round that this is designed to extend the championship challenge into the final races of the season. I think it's just the usual inconsistant consistancy of penalty application.

Am I the only one wishing this whole torid season ends sooner rather than later?

Todays race was a snoozefest of the highest order. I wait for the overtaking stats but to the best of my knowledge it should be around 3 and if it's any more I can't remember them. Well done to Kovi for a pretty audacious move on Fisi. It won't be enough to retain his seat at VMM but it was at least something entertaining in a very dull race.

As we were out late last night we decided to record the race and then watch it "as live" when we got up and boy am I glad I didn't waste my time getting up at 6am now.

Did every one else notice the number of empty seats in the grandstands around the track?
 

Brogan

Legend
Staff Member
cider_and_toast said:
Did every one else notice the number of empty seats in the grandstands around the track?
Yes, I mentioned it in chat during the race.

I was saying to Gav earlier, all the races which are more of a spectacle like Singapore, Abu Dhabi, etc. are sold out and yet real drivers' circuits like Spa and Suzuka are half empty.

My theory is that the people who can afford to attend races these days are more interested in the "spectacle" and not that interested in the racing.
As such, sitting in an old grandstand at Spa or Suzuka is far less appealing than attending the first race at a brand new track in the Middle East.
 

GeoffP

Wake me when we’re there
Contributor
and we shouldn't ignore the fact that the in-car camera's and track camera's are now fabulous, even if we can't always support the director's choice
 

gribbli

Points Scorer
Valued Member
You know what is even more concerning cat, with no change to the aero rules (i.e. the ones that failed dismally to help overtaking this year) and a seeming ban by the FIA on any use of imagination, surely next year is less F1 2010 and more F1 2009 - part 2. :(
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Valued Member
I think you may be right Gav but at least if that's the case all the teams (with the exception of the new guys who we know thanks to testing rules etc will be a mile off the pace) will be starting on a near level playing field.

What has helped to kill this season stone dead is the first 7 races when Button and the Brawn car was so far ahead of the field. How on earth can Button still be leading the championship when you consider that he's only scored 24 points in the last 8 races. That's an average of 3 points a race!

Buttons rivals have really missed an opportunity and It's bizarre how this situation has come about. I don't think any driver in F1 history has had a WDC handed too him as easily as Button. Even when he's seemingly out of it the other teams have conspired to make a hash of things. Unfortunatly this late season revival by Red Bull is too little too late.
 

Brogan

Legend
Staff Member
Whilst I see your point c_a_t, let's not forget that when the Brawn was the best car Button still had to beat his team mate.

So although Jenson has been somewhat lucky in that his rivals haven't managed to capitalise on his mistakes or misfortune, he still did what he needed to do when he had the car to do it in.

Now that the Red Bull is the best car on the grid, Seb V is doing what he needs to do.

The chart below clearly demonstrates how and when each driver accumulated their points.

Yes Jenson has only scored 24 points in the last 8 races but Rubens has only scored 36 which isn't a huge amount more.
You could equally argue that in the first 8 races Jenson scored 64 points and Rubens only 41.

Checks and balances really so either one would be the "deserving" WDC simply because they made the most of the opporunity that was available to them.

f1_2009_wdc.png
 

gribbli

Points Scorer
Valued Member
I'm totally with you on that one mate, and in my view, which might be controversial for some (me? never! LOL), is that neither of the Redbull drivers have made full use of their equipment. My very cold calculations via the top 10 thread showed for me that Webber's career form is exceptionally poor, and i think that while while vettel is certainly showing potential, im having to sit on the fence on this one.

If I was to put money on it i reckon id probably err on the side that the RedBull car is even better than we already believe, and had any of the ex-champs been teammates with Vettel we would probably be looking at both WDC & WCC falling to them instead of Brawn. On top of that I think Vettel's points tally would be less complimentary with a competative teammate nabbing some off him.

Either way irrespective of Brawns dominance at the start, I cant shake the fact that there was only a gap of 7.5 points between Webber & Vettel with 3 races to go. Especially when you consider Webber has not scored a solitary point for the last 5 races :o

So between Brawn & RedBull I feel we have had the season of some great cars dragging their no-so-great drivers kicking and screaming to the the top of the timesheet, leaving alot of fans feeling a bit dejected about the whole affair.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Is it time to revisit my "Worst Season Ever" thread? I would also like to officially dub 2009 "The year of the also ran", or is that too harsh?
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Valued Member
So although Jenson has been somewhat lucky in that his rivals haven't managed to capitalise on his mistakes or misfortune, he still did what he needed to do when he had the car to do it in.

The thing is, Button still has that car and isn't doing what he needs to do to cross the finishing line and take the WDC. Rubens has won 2 races in the last 8 and out qualified Button on all but one occasion which proves to me that the car is still good.

Vettel's problem is that he's managed to break the car on too many occasions. He's taken wins in all parts of the season, i.e. at the start, during the middle and towards the end, where as Buttons wins have all come at the start. I just wish the season started at the British GP and went on from there. At least it would have been interesting to see several drivers in the hunt.
 

Brogan

Legend
Staff Member
cider_and_toast said:
The thing is, Button still has that car and isn't doing what he needs to do to cross the finishing line and take the WDC. Rubens has won 2 races in the last 8 and out qualified Button on all but one occasion which proves to me that the car is still good.
Fair point.
Jenson did get a 2nd at Italy though which was one of Ruben's wins.
You can't really ask much more than that :D

I do know where you're coming from but personally it won't make much difference to me if Jenson or Seb V or even Rubens wins it.

I think we're kind of drifting now?
Perhaps we should start a "general moan about the 2009 season" thread :D
 

rufus_mcdufus

Champion Elect
I'm glad a few others on here found the race today a snoozefest - I argued this on the 'other place' a bit earlier and met a near 100% wall of disagreement, and that many felt this year has been classic! I'm really starting to question my sanity.
 

Brogan

Legend
Staff Member
It certainly wasn't classic Suzuka, but that seems to be a recurring theme this year.

I think it was a foregone conclusion that Vettel was going to run away with it based on practice and qualifying.

Just a shame there were no mid order battles to get excited about either.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
In fairness to Button (and as a Pompey fan this is very pertinent) there is no rule which says you must score all your points equally through a season. I can't see how Button can lose the WDC from here but at least the 2nd half of the season does, hopefully, suggest that next season might be a fight between 4 or 5 teams for the titles.

Who knows, one of the new teams might spring a surprise - perhaps we should consult Speshal's mate who put money on Brawn to win the WCC and Button the WDC just after Honda went pop.
 

gribbli

Points Scorer
Valued Member
Well imagine this scenario, button scoring 20 odd points in the first half of the season, then does a blitz of wins to take the title! Surely this would be seen as a highly entertaining season had such an event taken place.

In all honesty one should go to the engineers and designers giving them a pat on the back for turning the car around in such style, yet inevitably it would be Button himself that would get the plaudits and no doubt a *deserved* title.

The problem is if Button had continued where he started everyone would say its a schumi style whitewash, and boring as hell to boot. So are we just saying that drivers only deserve it if they front up at the end of the season? I think its a difficult balance, and not one i have any answers to LOL
 

Brogan

Legend
Staff Member
gav1ndav1d said:
So are we just saying that drivers only deserve it if they front up at the end of the season?
Quite.

Like I said, both Button and Vettel have done what they needed to do when they had the car to do it in.
Button did it in the first half of the season, Vettel did it in the second half.

The argument against Button is that his team mate is now outperforming him whereas Vettel has always matched or bettered Webber.
 
It wouldn't matter much to me if Button or Barrichello win the championship, its still a Brawn GP win which is what I want. In any case though its very good to see new teams at the top of the standings and Button's drop off towards the end of the season has made things more interesting to follow. This race started at 1 am eastern US time so I wasn't up to watch but they are replaying it on Speed at 10 pm so I will be able to catch it later.
 

Brogan

Legend
Staff Member
O_Danny_Boy said:
This race started at 1 am eastern US time so I wasn't up to watch but they are replaying it on Speed at 10 pm so I will be able to catch it later.
It's worth watching just to see Suzuka again :thumbsup:
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
By god that was boring.

I'd almost watch a valnecia race instead, absolutely nothing happened.

oooh bring on abu dhabi :givemestrength:
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
FB said:
In fairness to Button (and as a Pompey fan this is very pertinent) there is no rule which says you must score all your points equally through a season. I can't see how Button can lose the WDC from here but at least the 2nd half of the season does, hopefully, suggest that next season might be a fight between 4 or 5 teams for the titles.

Who knows, one of the new teams might spring a surprise - perhaps we should consult Speshal's mate who put money on Brawn to win the WCC and Button the WDC just after Honda went pop.

Whilst the second half has been to some extent open, in that there's been 6 different winners from Turkey onwards, the problem is that there's still a dominant car at each race, even if that car changes from race to race. There have been no real fights for the lead, no overtaking for the lead apart from Hungary (Ok, and Spa, although that was safety car assisted), and I really can't see why the actual racing next year will be that much different from this.

I think the FIA and FOTA have once more missed a trick by not changing the diffuser rules for next year.

And whilst I'm on my little soapbox, Martin Brundle. He's made it clear several times this season that he is against the refuelling ban for next year, and yet he said something like "now we're in the messy part of the Grand Prix with all the different strategies". So in his opinion, we should keep something that he describes as 'messy'. Sorry MB, but I think you're starting to lose the plot a little. Perhaps you've forgotten what a real race is like?
 
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