Safety Gone too Far?
- Thread starter Mephistopheles
- Start date
I see your point, but I think Mr. Whiting is reasonably intelligent and would take this under consideration. Perhaps the best people to listen to would be the experienced drivers in the midfield/lower reaches of the grid - perhaps Glock or Kovalainen or de la Rosa.
One change I would certainly like to see would be for the race start to be timed to avoid the local monsoons. While you can never be sure that it won't rain at 1pm, in places like Malaysia you know it is much more likely to chuck it down at 4pm. Maybe there was a bit of "hoping for a wet race" even when setting the start time, but there is rain (like we get here) and then there is rain (like they get there). When it rains there after 4pm, you are looking perhaps at 80%+ chance of a red flag. It was a bit stupid starting the race as late as they did - not least because it didn't leave the 4 hours before it would have been dark.
I don't think they could continue and were right to throw the flag last Sunday. However much fell and however deep the tread on the tyres is, it was the visibility that was the worst part. The equivalent of cricket's bad light stopped play. It was that and not the slippery conditions that justified it for me - yes, we want to see expert car control so if someone loses it in a lake then tough, but asking guys to drive when they can't see? That's a step too far, you aren't testing any of their skills any more in my view.
I agree with most people though that the SC was out way too long. By then, it should have been one lap and in - as people have said, they should never have left the SC out until people are ready for inters.
I don't think they could continue and were right to throw the flag last Sunday. However much fell and however deep the tread on the tyres is, it was the visibility that was the worst part. The equivalent of cricket's bad light stopped play. It was that and not the slippery conditions that justified it for me - yes, we want to see expert car control so if someone loses it in a lake then tough, but asking guys to drive when they can't see? That's a step too far, you aren't testing any of their skills any more in my view.
I agree with most people though that the SC was out way too long. By then, it should have been one lap and in - as people have said, they should never have left the SC out until people are ready for inters.
Without a doubt. And I assume that this was by decree from Bernie
Fair point, but there is still a major element of danger and without spare cars today that's a lot of cars out before the 2nd corner of the race.
A major issue when driving in heavy rain is the lack of visibility, which led to 2 heavy crashes at Spa 1998 when drivers were just lapping cars. There may be rain lights on the back of cars today, but sometimes the spray is so bad the drivers can't see them.
To those that believe the safety car is out too long in wet conditions like Sunday, how would you decide when to bring in the safety car & deem the track safe?
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
I suppose the question is always this: How many cars went off the circuit at Malaysia an had to retire because of the rain? I think it was a grand total of 0! I believe that 22 cars finished the race! (I will need to check that) - once upon a time, there was skill involved in wet races, and in very wet races, half the field (or more) wouldn't finish - due to mistakes from the drivers. This doesn't happen any more, as races are neutralised straight away! Whilst I don't want to see races like Adelaide '91 (Which should have been stopped the second that cars were abandoned in pieces halfway down the Jack Brabham straight), I also don't want to see races like Sepang, where no actual extra skill seems to need to be deployed!
I agree with you on the spray, but personally, I think the safety car should have done one or two laps to check and with the state of the track as it was (rapidly drying) ducked in and let everyone race.
Maybe the spray then was really bad because the wet tyres were dispersing so much water and drying the track so quickly? I'd have to watch again to be sure, but there were definitely a couple of laps too many after the restart under SC (in my opinion). If someone can almost immediately go onto inters at the restart, that would suggest the conditions by then were more than ok.
I'm not sure that was aquaplaning. When they start to aquaplane, usually more than 1 car is affected. I think Romain was pushing too hard to make up lost ground.
Josh
Champion Elect
that's what he said. I think he was taking a different line than others though so could be there was more water at that part. Not sure though.edit: and yeah he said he was still on inters. This is what he said (on f1.com)
Apparently when you go to a motor race it says on the ticket Motor racing is dangerous. the drivers do a job that could get them injured they accept that, you are correct to ask where is the line, but like Martin often says this isn't a knitting circle and if they don't want to race then they should stay in bed.
I don't want to see anyone get hurt thats not what I watch the sport for I just feel that while nobody knows where the line is they certainly know when it has been crossed and the safety line has definitely been crossed and has passed into the realms of mollycoddling.
Tap another car and it's a stewards inquiry
these days. and instead of people like Horner and Vettel calling drivers names I preferred it when a driver with a grievance simply went up to the other one and gave him a slap Schumi vs DC spa 98 round one. ding ding.... 
I don't want to see anyone get hurt thats not what I watch the sport for I just feel that while nobody knows where the line is they certainly know when it has been crossed and the safety line has definitely been crossed and has passed into the realms of mollycoddling.
Tap another car and it's a stewards inquiry
these days. and instead of people like Horner and Vettel calling drivers names I preferred it when a driver with a grievance simply went up to the other one and gave him a slap Schumi vs DC spa 98 round one. ding ding.... 
I agree that the tendency has gone too far in the conservative direction, but the difficult thing is knowing exactly where the line should be drawn.
We so often see in wet conditions that cars all go off in the same place. At Sepang, it seemed half the cars going through the fast left-hander behind the pits went through the runoff on the lap the Safety Car was deployed. This presents a particular safety issue for marshals attending to these cars (in situations where they hit a barrier or get stuck in gravel). At Suzuka 1994 a marshal's leg was broken by Martin Brundle's McLaren (I think) in exactly these circumstances, and at the Nurburgring race referenced above I remember a few near-misses at Turn 1.
In short, then: I don't know!
We so often see in wet conditions that cars all go off in the same place. At Sepang, it seemed half the cars going through the fast left-hander behind the pits went through the runoff on the lap the Safety Car was deployed. This presents a particular safety issue for marshals attending to these cars (in situations where they hit a barrier or get stuck in gravel). At Suzuka 1994 a marshal's leg was broken by Martin Brundle's McLaren (I think) in exactly these circumstances, and at the Nurburgring race referenced above I remember a few near-misses at Turn 1.
In short, then: I don't know!
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
I think you've just hit the nail on the head! If there's cars getting stuck/abandoned, then there's a case for the safety car! Pre-emptive safety cars are often just too conservative!!!
Yes just like in dry conditions you don't put a safety car out because you "think" there maybe an accident. a safety car should never be used in a preemptive way, that's like stopping a fight before the first punch is thrown..
They had traction control and a few other gizmos back in 2007 plus the wet weather tyres I think were better the Pirelli ones seem really poor.
Excellent point about the TC, I'd forgotten about that. However we've had such a small amount of running on the full wets it's quite hard to make that judgement I think.
landogeorgelewis1
Champion Elect
I think Charlie Whitting has one of the hardest jobs on an F1 weekend. Whatever he does he'll always get some form of stick from people.
Sometimes i do think he leaves the safety car out too long but then at times i think why hasn't a safety car been used? We as fans sitting and watching it on the tele really don't get an idea of how the conditions are. It's only when a driver tells us from a radio feed that it's about time the safety car is not needed.
All in all he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. He can't get every decision right though.
Sometimes i do think he leaves the safety car out too long but then at times i think why hasn't a safety car been used? We as fans sitting and watching it on the tele really don't get an idea of how the conditions are. It's only when a driver tells us from a radio feed that it's about time the safety car is not needed.
All in all he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. He can't get every decision right though.
landogeorgelewis1
Champion Elect
Yes this is very true.
This can't help him with his decision making when he get's conflicting information from Drivers.
But in the same conditions a 21 year old rookie was keeping the car on the track with intermediate tyres on
Yeah Jean Eric Vergne was awesome
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