Current Robert Kubica

He's fast, Polish and a bloody brilliant racer. To me Kubica is a special talent and has been very unlucky to not find himself in a top team yet.

The thing i like about Kubica is that he's a trier and never gives in say if he was third and had a sniff of second he'd go and chase the second place man down. He's a much toned down version of Lewis Hamilton IMHO he's great at overtaking (Austrailla 2009) exception and if he was in a better car i think he'd a won more races than the current 1 he stands at.

Kubica made his F1 debut at the Hungrian GP in 2006 replacing the injuried Jacque Villeneuve for BMW Sauber. He'd outqualified teammate Nick Heidfeld at the time and finished the race in 7th place only to be DSQ for been under weight. Since Kubica's first and only Pole Position came at the 2008 Bahrain GP, that same season he'd broke his winning duck and won his current and only race in Canada. Kubica has stood on the podium 12 times and in his 76 race he's scored a total of 273 points.

Sad news broke eariler in the year (2011) that Kubica had been involved in a Rally competition and crashed, his life was said to be in the balance, but he's slowly recovering from nasty injuries he substaned in the accident. It remains to be seen whether Kubica will return to motor-racing. But for me Kubica is a talented driver and if we do see him back on the grid i'd be over the moon.

Whether you like him or not Kubica is a cool guy and one that i'd like to see become Champion if he return's to the sport.

How do you rate Kubica?

 

[RasputinLives]

a second one is will. Kubica has a will unlike Nannini's. I saw the entire careers of both...and Kubica just has a gigantic will and belief.

Ray you can;t possibley know that from watching their Grand Prix careers - No one knows how anyone will react to a serious life threaterning injury. I've seen even the strongest of people crumble. I know what your saying comes from your strong support and strong hope that Robert Kubica can make a return to F1 - something that I share with you but don't suggest you can tell from watching on TV how someone will cope with something like this and don't suggest for a moment that Nannini did not have will power, belief and strength as his fight back to even be in motor racing at the time was amazing.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

O I never said Sandro didnt have will power, belief and strength...I said that, coupled with 20 years of advanced medical technology on how to put a forearm back together again, Kubica seems to have more of it (will power) than Nannini (from all that i've read and heard of the two.)

One can see it in reports by the likes of Nigel Roebuck of Motor Sport Magazine. He's not a medical expert but he has been at most GP races since 1971 and has a reading on which drivers exhibit greater self belief and will power than others.

 

[Galahad]

Huh? I'm at a loss. Kindly explain.

"will" and "belief" have nothing to do with nationality.

 

[RasputinLives]

I know what you said Ray - and as usual I'm sure you have some journalists opinion to back it up, but just think about what your saying. You're almost saying that Nannini didn't make it back to F1 because he didn't try hard enough and that Kubica will because he's stronger. Can you see how that might be massively offensive if you were Nannini? the guy fought hard against an injury and not only sorted his life but got back into an international standard of Motorsport.

Having been close to a few people who have suffered injuries or been diagnosed with disease that will effect their life style I can tell you its almost impossible to be able to predict how someone is going to react and who will be 'strong' and who will struggle to start with.

Like you I would love to believe that Robert will return as good as ever and fight through the injury but you or any journalist, however long they've been writing, has no way of knowing how anyone will cope with something like this - certainly not enough to suggest that one guy will recover from an injury better than another because they have stronger 'will power'

I know you don't mean it as such Ray but can't you see how that might be slightly offensive to the guy you're disregarding?

sorry to go all serious on you like.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

...You're almost saying that Nannini didn't make it back to F1 because he didn't try hard enough... Can you see how that might be massively offensive if you were Nannini? the guy fought hard against an injury and not only sorted his life but got back into an international standard of Motorsport.
I know you don't mean it as such Ray but can't you see how that might be slightly offensive to the guy you're disregarding?

I ate at Nannini's cafe in Siena (his home town in Italy) in 2008. It's called "Nannini"! He was a very good driver and he seemed like a very decent individual.

I didn't mean it that way and I caveated it by implying he didn't have the medical technology that Kubica has. And...

"will" and "belief" have nothing to do with nationality.

You're absolutely right. Kubica, however, is a very unusual guy who came out of a country with no heritage of any kind and had to fight to where he got to...which, according to many pundits, was one of the Top 4 open wheel drivers in the world by the time of the 1st winter test of 2011.

That makes him rather unique.

Regardless, let's not dwell on this. Let's wish Robert the VERY best and keep him in our kindest thoughts possible.

PS, Nannini has cafe's in a number of locations now...and not just in Sienna, Tuscany.

 

[Sarinaide]

I am sorry but the page one (1) remarks about Kubica being in the top 3 or 4 best drivers in Formula One or this generation,.....really?

First off, what generation? from when does this assesment start? and then we can asses from there whether he is actually the top 3 or 4 best in the said "generation".

Just going on a whim, 1 grand prix win (I stand corrected on this) doesn't make someone a top 3 driver by any stretch of the imagination, least of all if it is with a BMW Sauber/Williams.

 

[teabagyokel]

Just going on a whim, 1 grand prix win (I stand corrected on this) doesn't make someone a top 3 driver by any stretch of the imagination, least of all if it is with a BMW Sauber/Williams.

Are you saying you're only a top 3 driver if you win your 1 Grand Prix if it is with McLaren or Ferrari? That is Heikki Kovalainen. The BMW was a decent car in 2008, but it was third best in the first half and Kubica lead the Championship in it. That was partly because of mistakes from Ferrari and McLaren, but largely due to Kubica's superior consistency. They stopped developing after that point, too.

As for his performances in the 2010 Renault. That was clearly the fifth best car on the grid. He finished 6/8 points behind Rosberg/Massa, and thats with a retirement from a probable podium at Suzuka. He beat his team-mate by more than 100 points.

Kubica is clearly one of the most talented drivers of his generation. And it is not more of a challenge to win in a top team. Riccardo Patrese managed that one. Its the greats who can drag a car past where it deserves to be. Senna at Lotus, Alonso in his second Renault stint, Vettel at Toro Rosso. And, yes, Kubica at Renault.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I am sorry but the page one (1) remarks about Kubica being in the top 3 or 4 best drivers in Formula One or this generation,.....really? First off, what generation? from when does this assesment start?

I don't think it was Top 3...I think it was Top 4. Since when? Well, it's not a question of "Since when"...it's a question of "At what time?".

That time was 2010 and going into 2011. It's hard to argue that anyone else other than Vettel, Hamilton or Alonso was better than Kubica.

 

[FB]

That time was 2010 and going into 2011. It's hard to argue that anyone else other than Vettel, Hamilton or Alonso was better than Kubica.

I take Sarinaide's point though Ray - to group Kubica as amongst the top 4 drivers on the grid, based on his current record, is very subjective. Button was World Champion in 2009, won 2 Grands Prix in 2010 and has won one in 2011, is Kubica better than him? Webber has won more Grands Prix than Kubica, is Kubica better than him? Rosberg has only won one less Grands Prix than Kubica, is Kubica better than him? Trulli and Kovalainen have won as many Grands Prix as Kubica... (I perhaps move into the realms of fantasy but I hope you take my point)

I appreciate that we all have a subjective opinion on the relative merits and demerits of different drivers but if Kubica is that good why weren't Ferrari or Mercedes or Mclaren beating a path to the Poles door when BMW shut up shop? If you would sack Kimi Raikkonen to get Alonso surely you'd sack Massa to get Kubica if he's that good?

 

[teabagyokel]

I appreciate that we all have a subjective opinion on the relative merits and demerits of different drivers but if Kubica is that good why weren't Ferrari or Mercedes or Mclaren beating a path to the Poles door when BMW shut up shop? If you would sack Kimi Raikkonen to get Alonso surely you'd sack Massa to get Kubica if he's that good?

First is that Kubica did not have a great 2009. Second, PR-wise Ferrari were in a difficult situation vis-á-vis Massa. Third, McLaren and Mercedes had their own ideas on who to sign. Undoubtedly, Mercedes got it wrong.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

If you would sack Kimi Raikkonen to get Alonso surely you'd sack Massa to get Kubica if he's that good?

They couldn't. It's always been Ferrari policy to save the seat for a driver injured in their car (Code Of Honour thing)...PLUS ... it would have been a huge PR nightmare. Globally. Remember, too, that Santander are intending to be even bigger in Brazil now than in Spain. Brazil is a bigger economy now than some of the G7 Countries and it's a beach-head to Latin America and having Massa there was part of the plan...Imagine how Santander would have looked in Brazil had they jetisoned an 11 Grand Prix winner (a 'hero' who came so close to winning the 2008 WDC at home) who nearly died driving a Ferrari?

I do take Sarinaide's point, though. It's all pretty subjective. Perhaps Rosberg is the greatest of all of them!

First is that Kubica did not have a great 2009. Second, PR-wise Ferrari were in a difficult situation vis-á-vis Massa. Third, McLaren and Mercedes had their own ideas on who to sign. Undoubtedly, Mercedes got it wrong.

Yes. Plus at the end of 2009 there was an unusual imbalance in Supply and Demand at the Top End.

Demand for talent at the Sharp End fell when BMW and Toyota pulled out while Renault nearly pulled out (there was some degree of uncertainty about continuing, especially after "Crash-Gate") in the midst of a huge recession...and...

Supply went up when the higher paid drivers like Raikkonen, Schumacher, Trulli, Button, Kubica, Heidfeld and Barrichello became available.

There were fewer top seats and much more available talent. Plus, as mentioned, Ferrari 'saved' the seat for a driver nearly killed in their car as a mark of honour.

 

[MCLS]

Well why didn't Ferrari sign Kubica up for 2011 then?

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Well why didn't Ferrari sign Kubica up for 2011 then?

James Allen, Martin Brundle and others suggested Alonso vetoed the idea about a year ago.

 

[MCLS]

Suggestions from journalists mean diddly squat in real money, Ferrari won't bend over backwards for Alonso if it means costing them a chance at the WCC.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Suggestions from journalists mean diddly squat ... Ferrari won't bend over backwards for Alonso if it means costing them a chance at the WCC.

It's true that suggestions from journalists mean diddly. I'm merely answering your question, MCLS. Don't kill the messenger!

You sure Ferrari aren't bending over backwards for Alonso these days? Brundle even joked about how Ferrari's uselessly timed last pitstop for Massa was as good as a mere after thought. But, I suppose Brundle is just a journo and what he say means jack diddle!

 

[Galahad]

If Robert makes a full recovery, I have no doubt that he will find his way into a top drive at some stage of his career. Probably only then will we be able to fully resolve the (so far somewhat conflicting) existing evidence on how good he actually is. I think he's very good indeed, but I'm not certain about it, and 2009 is a big part of the reason why. He was terrific in an underperforming Renault; yet underwhelming in that underperforming BMW Sauber. So there's a question mark there for me that I can't really resolve to my satisfaction.

 

[FB]

Perhaps Rosberg is the greatest of all of them!

Let's not get carried away now

My point was more that many would have written Jenson Button off (me included) but then in a great car he wiped the floor with everyone. Some drivers just aren't going to hack it, look at the Hector Rebaque's or Riccardo Zunino's of this world but who knows what Glock, Buemi, Algurwatist, Sutil etc. might have achieved in last year's Renault. The only bench mark we have for Kubica in that car is Petrov and he was very much "learning his craft" last year.

 

[Sarinaide]

Are you saying you're only a top 3 driver if you win your 1 Grand Prix if it is with McLaren or Ferrari? That is Heikki Kovalainen. The BMW was a decent car in 2008, but it was third best in the first half and Kubica lead the Championship in it. That was partly because of mistakes from Ferrari and McLaren, but largely due to Kubica's superior consistency. They stopped developing after that point, too.

I did not say that, I mearly said that one grand prix win doesn't make you de facto top 4 material, bare in mind it was with BMW which is hardly a terrible car. Yes his results in 2010 where good, but the Renault was hardly the shocking car of 2009. You look at Petrov and Heidfields performances which while not epic are not poor.

Kubica is probably in the top 10 current drivers but certainly not top 4.

 

[Sarinaide]

James Allen, Martin Brundle and others suggested Alonso vetoed the idea about a year ago.

Why is it whenever there is something bad said about Alonso it comes from a messers Brundle, I am sure you are aware of Brudles "expert advice" to Alonso in some races for how to win, this coming from a 0 GP winner to a potential 50 GP winner.

Oh and again Luca will never allow a driver to dictate Ferrari policy and procedures...that I will put my manhood on the line for.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Kubica is probably in the top 10 current drivers but certainly not top 4.

Aha ha! He's not in the current anything. He's currently barely out of his bed. No one in their right mind can rate Kubica currently.

Prior to his Rallying accident, however, he was arguably better than Massa. Hamilton listed Kubica as the man he feared most as early as 2009 in an article in AUTOSPORT Magazine...and Alonso himself rated Kubica 'driver of the year' in 2008. That's not me saying it, that was Hamilton and Alonso!

Yes, Kubica had a weak year in 2009...but Alonso did too. Doesn't mean you can't have a poor year if you don't have a car to show your skill.