Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:

• Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
• Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
• Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
• Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.

Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)

 

[FB]

I read an interview with RD in the early 80's where he stated that any F1 team principal has "10 aggressive years". The fact that he kept the team at the front for as long as he did is testament to is tenacity and ambition. However, like many in F1 (team principals, designers, drivers, and others), he hung about too long and this tarnished his legacy.

 

[The Artist.....]

FB - I'd argue that the great years for RD at McLaren were 1983 - 1991. Following Honda's withdrawal, RD made many mis-steps - first of all my not partnering with Lambo (The engine they built at the end of 1993 was allegedly streets ahead of what McLaren then got - the other Lambo F1 engines were no comparison).

Then there was going with Peugeot. Even the choice to partner with Mercedes in 1995 was a sticky issue for several years...

 

[F1Brits_90]

that McLaren in 90s from the outside is confusing because how do you go from domination 88 - 91 to nowhere. they had 10 poles & 8 wins in 91 to 1 pole & 3 wins in 92. then 93 - 96 only senna finished in the top 6 of championship as they had a 66 race drought til the questionable win in jerez

but why they ever left Mercedes for honda will forever baffle people & Ron dennis stubbornness cost him. as the chassis was dreadful but made Honda the scapegoat

 

[Dartman]

The Honda episode was ridiculous, they bought in a driver who trashed them in 2007 in a fit of pique because he didn't want to race as an equal, they somehow conned Honda into paying Alonso's wages at the same time Alonso was publicly criticising them to an extreme degree. Why RD employed him when he had a perfectly capable development driver with a high Japanese respect who could have turned the failure round possibly a year earlier, maybe not a winner but certainly a challenger. One way to upset the Japanese is to publicly tell them their products are crap, I suspect they were looking for an out after the first year, and if Alonso was so good on development how comes he didn't criticise the McLaren chassis, even with a unreliable engine the lap times should have been reasonably competitive until it blew up, if ever there was a smoke and mirrors episode in McLaren this was it, RD more or less bought on his own downfall, he just lost the plot.

 

[Il_leone]

2018 was the rude awakening for them realising that the chassis was the problem onYoutube by the Race today.

 

[Il_leone]

Hiring James Key was the key

 

[F1Brits_90]

Im starting to understand why alonso dislikes Ron Dennis & why Ron Dennis was unpopular in paddock when he left. some of the stories that kevin Magnusson has revealed in his book are ridiculous & well done to him for not landing them in it, because i wouldve been fuming some of these. he must have the patience of a saint to not have knocked him out

https://twitter.com/x/status/1476226599624318976

 

[F1Brits_90]

these are just some some of the mclaren tales, but on the above thread their many stories about all his teams

https://twitter.com/x/status/1476226618989461505

 

[cider_and_toast]

"Kevin Magnussen wines that he got a rough deal at McLaren. Kevin Magnussen moans that he wasn't listened to. Kevin Magnussen rolls around on the floor kicking and crying "it's not fair, it's not fair". Kevin Magnussen who could have, would have and should have ......"

 

[F1Brits_90]

cider_and_toast to be fair to kevin Magnussen i think it was rough deal, if ron dennis had done that to anyone it wouldve been disgraceful behaviour. you cant behave like that.

from them stories ron dennis was trying to sabotage Kevin Magnussen career from the inside

why did Ron Dennis immediately rip a sealed deal, then sack perez & Whitmarsh the next day

why he did he promise him the drive in 2015 & 2016. only to vanish, stop him driving for williams because his seat was secure for 2015. the forbid him to drive anywhere in 2015 because he was needed at McLaren but refuse him access to simulator. & then sack him on his birthday

that is absolutely shameful behaviour im understand why he was so unpopular & hasnt been invited back. he would need the riot squad with who he's upset

 

[cider_and_toast]

This is the same Ron Dennis who ran to the stewards to appeal Senna's disqualification in Japan in 1989 which, if successful, would have prevented his other driver, Prost, from winning the world title there and then

Ron Dennis was no different to many team owners, managers. A ruthless bastard.

Just look at Frank Williams treatment of Hill and the way Horner and Red Bull dump drivers for fun.

 

[F1Brits_90]

This is the same Ron Dennis who ran to the stewards to appeal Senna's disqualification in Japan in 1989 which, if successful, would have prevented his other driver, Prost, from winning the world title there and then

Ron Dennis was no different to many team owners, managers. A ruthless bastard.

Just look at Frank Williams treatment of Hill and the way Horner and Red Bull dump drivers for fun.

Frank Williams was dreadful at times, hill finding out frentzen had his 1997 seat in 1995 reading autosport. was shocking & say what you like about red bull & we have. how impatient they are. how they were responsible for ruining careers of Vergne, Buemi & algurusari, nearly gasly & sainz, reducing kyvat to tears. but the 1 thing they have been is honest, sometimes its brutal but id rather know where i stand. at no point did Red bull promise Gasly the season & dump him in spa. they him told by Austria he would need to improve

& these are the findings of a deranged dictator. its as if Ron caught Jan red handed having an affair with his wife. & in the getaway jan ran over his dog. & Ron decided to wait 20 yrs to extract revenge

 

[F1Brits_90]

because in any job. can you imagine in a 15 month period. you get a job offer for a promotion at a similar company. you tell the manager. they say reject it because why would want to leave when that promotion will be yours soon here.

then few weeks later they hire someone externally for the job you were promised they begin to gentle freeze you out & then another opening comes up again, your promised that promotion is yours. when a meeting is called for you think is announce the promotion. it actually you being been fired

i would be spitting feathers

 

[Dartman]

There are the chosen ones who will be a multiple WDC or the capability of being one, then there are the also rans some made WDC others didn't but the result was the same, whatever was promised you missheard, F1 is ruthless, if you are very politically asute, ( Prost) have the PR ( Alonso) and are the best since sliced bread Senna, Hamilton, Clark, possibly but yet to be proven Verstappen, don't believe either in the length of your contact or promises, you're expendable

 

[Il_leone]

Interesting to listen to some of the stories
I will say K Mag was billed to be the next Hamilton and was blindingly fast for 2014 but erratic. I think initially Ron Dennis trying to promote K Mag was his way to exert his control but he could not win over the other owners after the way he came back taking over Whitmarsh through a coup.

Ron has always been a perfectionist and expects the same but maybe KMag was not ready for that at the time and naive as well.

Unfortunately his career stalled given what has happened with Sainz, and Verstappen who have surpassed him. Given Renault only wanted 1 year deal but Haas offered him 2 years for more money he did not really analyse the long term potential and could not put over Grosjean.

Also all the false promises which never happened- he is not the first driver this has happened to. Maybe he needed the balls to stand up to Ron then things might be different

 

[Il_leone]

because in any job. can you imagine in a 15 month period. you get a job offer for a promotion at a similar company. you tell the manager. they say reject it because why would want to leave when that promotion will be yours soon here.

then few weeks later they hire someone externally for the job you were promised they begin to gentle freeze you out & then another opening comes up again, your promised that promotion is yours. when a meeting is called for you think is announce the promotion. it actually you being been fired

i would be spitting feathers

Unfortunately it happens all the time trying to use the loyalty angle i understand what he is thinking being young and naive and you get shafted. Sometimes it's better to move away from Ron's control apparently the atmosphere was toxic when he came back because he simply put fear into everyone and really offering no margin for error or flexibility

Flavio Briatore was just as bad in his own way

 

[F1Brits_90]

whatever was promised you missheard, F1 is ruthless

i guess i come from the place of still expecting honesty, but then this might be glimpse into the F1 that they like to keep hidden. but the behaviour wouldve been fine, but they shouldnt have been so definite let him to talk williams

but 2015 will always puzzle me, why was he forbidden from racing in other categories & told to turn the offers down, then wasnt allowed in the simulator. then sacked. they effectively put him on gardening leave

 

[Dartman]

Most F1 drivers have contracts that control where, what and who they can drive for outside F1, regarding other offers, he was held in McLaren as an insurance in case their other driver plans fell through, banning him from driving the simulator may be because either it showed the car was crap or it simulated a car they didn't have

 

[cider_and_toast]

Reminds me very much of Hakkinen's year on the bench when he moved to McLaren for 93 in anticipation that he would get a race seat only to find that Senna had signed on for another year and Michael Andretti would be in the other seat.

 

[The Artist.....]

cider_and_toast - Häkkinen in 1993 was a little different - he was signed as a back up, just in case Senna didn’t race, or Went to Ferrari or Williams, but Senna was first choice.

I was always confused by Hakkinen getting that seat though, as he had only had 2 seasons for Lotus, where he’d been only about as good as Herbert.