Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:

• Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
• Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
• Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
• Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.

Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)

 

[siffert_fan]

McLaren has also catered to Alonso's every whim in an effort to keep him satisfied (eg the dumping of Honda). Yet here he is, very early in the season stating that F1 is not his priority. If I was in charge of McLaren, FA would be given his walking papers and the money saved by hiring a younger, hungrier driver would be put to better use by spending it on developing the car!

 

[Bill Boddy]

siffert_fan I doubt that McLaren dropped Honda because Alonso told them to; it was more likely because they were crap and had been when they were expected to supply an engine which would at least run up during winter testing.

Just which driver is there available who is better at providing feedback after testing than Alonso?

 

[RasputinLives]

just which driver is there available who is better at providing feedback after testing than Alonso?

That's an interesting question. I think we'd need a lot of data and on the spot first hand accounts to answer it. It is said in the media that Alonso is a great tester but the way the cars perform after he tests them doesn't seem to back that up. Hamilton is said to be awful at set up but yet he seems more often than not to have a winning car.

I think that whole question could really result in a 15000 word essay where the answer could either be everyone or no one.

 

[siffert_fan]

Bill Boddy

Given the plethora of sensors available today, I rather imagine that a driver's feedback is of little if any use.

Which would you consider more valuable: a set of hard data showing how a car is performing virtually everywhere within its performance window, or the "gut feelings" provided by a driver whose feedback is distorted by personal preferences etc?

Given the lack or progress made by McLaren since FA has been there, I would have to conclude that his feedback is of little or no value.

 

[gethinceri]

siffert_fan I doubt that McLaren dropped Honda because Alonso told them to; it was more likely because they were crap and had been when they were expected to supply an engine which would at least run up during winter testing.

Just which driver is there available who is better at providing feedback after testing than Alonso?

Massa

 

[Bill Boddy]

Oh deae. The lack of quality of the McLaren is not down to the testers, it is due to the systems engineers and designers just as in any manufacturing business. The tester carries out the stipulated tes and reports back. And yes, all the driveers talk about the "feel" of the car; until this can be replicated when we do not really know how to quantify it I would rather the driver adds feedback on that final addition to the car.

But then, if you are anti-Alonso he will never be right.

 

[RasputinLives]

But but but.....it was you who brought up how valuable Alonso's testing feedback was to make the McLaren a good car! Now you're saying it's the designers and engineers that make it good or bad. This conversation is confusing.

But then, if you are pro-Alonso he will always be right.

(By the way for the record I am not anti Alonso I'm just severely bored with him and think he has contributed to McLaren basically going down the same path as Williams. I'm anti-Flavio I will freely admit that. The man is a cheat and morally bankrupt. Which is why Alonso's antics in the press bug me because they are clearly Briatore led or taught.)

 

[Bill Boddy]

Sorry RasputinLives but I think that what you are quoting is not what I am saying.

In production cycles that I have been involved in the design/production precess has gone something like:

1. Overall system design is decided by engineer(s).

2. Various segments of the design are allocated to design teams.

3. Testing of individual segments is carried out.

4 The complete unit is assembled and sent to preliminary testing including simulations.

5. Results are sent back to the systems engineers and re-design is carried out as necessary.

6. The final build is tested.

The driver has little if any feedback before final testing

I think that Alonso is a top class driver, his team mates, possibly bar one, have all spoken highly of him. He can, and has, gone astray due to his Latin temperament but how many drivers have been perfect? I have high regard for most drivers, they did not get to F1 without some considerable merit, yes, even the pay drivers.

 

[RasputinLives]

So big company bought massive shares in McLaren who just happen to have connections (i.e. run by) the father of an F2 driver! Funny that. The journey down the Williams road continues

Latifi tipped for possible future McLaren move | PlanetF1

 

[RasputinLives]

Michael Latifi now confirmed as owning 10% share in McLaren.

McLaren: Michael Latifi becomes 10% shareholder with £200m investment

His son Nicholas only needs to finish 5th or above in F2 this year to get a super licence. Pretty sure an F1 seat will follow soon after.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Oh 'eck. Standby for more nepotism posts.

 

[teabagyokel]

It's nepotism, that's what it is!

 

[Bill Boddy]

On the other hand it may not be nepotism.

"The shareholding, through Latifi’s British Virgin Islands-based company Nidala Ltd, was seen as a purely commercial deal and the team said it was unrelated to the 22-year-old Latifi’s racing career."

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...essman-latifi-buys-into-mclaren-idUKKCN1IM1BT

 

[RasputinLives]

NIcholas DAvid LAtefi

Company = NIDALA Ltd

Seems related to me but time will tell I guess.

 

[Il_leone]

RasputinLives I can't see his son jumping into the Mclaren seat unless he is better than Norris for a start.

It is good for Mclaren the investment so they can maybe attract a stronger North American presence. It will be interesting to see who is Mclaren put in charge to run the racing team

 

[RasputinLives]

I know logically he shouldn't go into the seat and maybe I'm being cynical but we all know how F1 business works.

I'll hold my tongue but watch very closely.

 

[Il_leone]

The number of times Mclaren have picked drivers based on business reasons rather than racing reasons it usually has gone horribly wrong for them

De Cesaris for a start was touted as a promising youngster and because of Marlboro he got a drive with Mclaren whilst rapid he usually junked a lot of chassis that lead to him being ultimately replaced by Lauda on the basis to Marlboro that Mclaren will field proven world champion drivers thus beginning a trend that goes up to 1993

1993 - Not sure about Senna's commitment they hired Andretti because Marlboro wanted a champion driver seeing that was Ron Dennis' option. Even so Senna did commit to the full season eventually, Andretti and Mclaren never gelled and Michael stuck two fingers to F1 before the end of the season. It did not help the results were not there because Andretti did not want to work his butt off and instead chose to spend Christmas enjoying turkeys and wine rather than testing through out the winter.


1994 - Mclaren could not get Prost to drive for them who had decided to retire and Williams would sue for breach of contract if he did a u turn. Then you had Peugeot wanting Mclaren to race Alliott but thankfully that was only for 1 race in an otherwise poor season

1995 - Ron was probably dead set on Brundle and Hakkinen but pressure from Marlboro forced him to sign Mansell - a guy he ridiculed that he was not a top driver with a video. The fiasco with the car being too skinny/ Mansell being fat took away the hype
that they may prove critics wrong then two races in Mansell gets shown up and quits because the car was undriveable


2013 - Perez - I have to say Mclaren sort of leapt at signing him and suspicion was more to do with the sponsor money he would bring to pay for the engines. Checo managed to antagonise every world champion trying to prove he was a top driver when going wheel to wheel but he clearly was not ready for a top drive when possibly Hulkenberg might have been a better bet then

It is odd that Mclaren find themselves in a situation where they can no longer tempt world class drivers to their team

 

[siffert_fan]

Il_leone

As I recall, in 1993 the team was unsure of whether they would have Senna or not, so they hired both Andretti and Mika H, who they used as test driver pending Senna reaching a decision. THAT was why Andretti didn't get testing time, NOT because he didn't want it.

 

[RasputinLives]

Plus Andretti's results got steadily better as the season went on with him actually scoring a podium in his last race at Monza. A result not to be sniffed at in 1993 when the two Williams were guaranteed the top two spots and Mclaren had a very underpowered car. Andretti didn't work out because he didn't want to relocate from the US and because Ron wanted Mika in the drive.

Back on the current subject. I know McLaren's history and I know the idea of them taking money to give a seat up is an eyebrow raiser but I'm afraid that's the way F1 is going. Strolls investors at Williams, Ericsson's investors at Sauber, it's how Perez (and Gutierrez) got into F1. Getting up the ladder into F1 is as much about business investment as talent now days and the independent teams who aren't at the front have to walk that line. That include McLaren these days.

Noises are already being made about Vandorne in the media. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Norris/Lateffi pairing either next season or the one after.

 

[Il_leone]

siffert_fan Part of the problem was he did not want to live in Europe to do winter testing to get to grips with the car. He always was travelling to races from his home in America and not from Woking with the rest of the team.

Andretti felt Ron Dennis never warmed to him in the first place did not help telling him qualifying 6th was in his 2nd race