Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:

• Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
• Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
• Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
• Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.

Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

2nd and 3rd on the grid at Monza isn't too bad. At least they out-qualified Red Bull's Number 2.

Vettel looks like a Demon these days so even if Hamilton didn't make that mistake under breaking into the Roggia, I doubt he'd have been able to pull out half a second.

If you're a Glass Half Full McLaren man you can say your cars are the quickest but that Vettel's just having his Christmasses all in one year ... and they're all are coming early.

If you're a Glass Half Empty McLaren man you can say your cars are second quickest but that something's very very wrong with the Number 2 RBR driver.

Which one are you?

 

[Cookinflatsix]

As a Glass completely full McLaren fan, I would say the cars are still second fastest, and that Seb is finding the edges of his performance envelope and Webber is even lamer than ever

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Phew. We can get back to talking about McLaren then?

Ya.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they took a 1-2 tomorrow with Vettel 3rd. Anything can happen but I think McLaren can win the race tomorrow and if all goes well they'll take a 1-2.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Ya.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they took a 1-2 tomorrow with Vettel 3rd. Anything can happen but I think McLaren can win the race tomorrow and if all goes well they'll take a 1-2.

That's more like it. I am going to reserve judgement until we see race pace. There was nothing I could glean today as to how they will compare in race trim. The Red Bull looked a much mightier package on high fuel in practice. I'll hold out some hope that McLaren might be able to stay in touch but I wouldn't put a bet on it either way.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

McLaren have two serious contenders for the win versus one for RBR...so there's a good chance they can decide to take two different routes in terms of strategy and tactics during the race with one of them being the winning one.

It could all boil down to how smartly the McLaren pit wall think on their feet and how quickly they react and which of their two drivers 'lucks out' and which of the two doesn't make a mistake or who makes a mistake (including Vettel/RBR pit wall/pit crew making that possible race-winning/costing mistake).

Also, Vettel seems to have opted for a shorter gear ratio than the McLaren drivers. This could make him a sitting duck if he comes under threat in the DRS zones.

Vettel was slowest of all through the Monza speed trap before the first corner with his 327.7 km/h comparing to Button's 333.1 km/h and Hamilton's 332.7 km/h

The maximum speed that is measured just before the finish line, has Vettel at 316.6 km/h in qualifying V Button's 319.4 km/h & Hamilton's 318.4 km/h.

So, if Vettel loses P1, his ratio selection will make it unable for him to make the best use of DRS to regain position.

McLaren, to me, look to be in the Pound Seats for the reasons above.

Right now at this stage of "the WDC" I don't think McLaren care which driver wins the race...they just want to win the race period. It might help them if Vettel decides 2nd - or even 3rd - will do him nicely in terms of "points" as oppose to "taking too great of a risk" and, as a result, not DNFing when fighting over a position.

My leaning is a McLaren 1-2 for tomorrow.

At the very least I expect a McLaren win...but I don't know who. 60% towards Lewis, 40% towards Jenson.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

The Bookies have Vettel at almost Even Money to take the win.

They have Lewis at ~ 2.5 to 1

They have Jenson at just over 5 to 1

Alonso's not far off Jenson's line.

I think you have to go with Lewis...but if you want to get a bigger bang for your dollar, then i'd put some money on Jenson at those odds.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

It could all boil down to how smartly the McLaren pit wall think on their feet and how quickly they react and which of their two drivers 'lucks out' and which of the two doesn't make a mistake or who makes a mistake (including Vettel/RBR pit wall/pit crew making that possible race-winning/costing mistake)....

...At the very least I expect a McLaren win...but I don't know who. 60% towards Lewis, 40% towards Jenson.

Monza pretty much always hands the win to the fastest car. Practice and qualli tell us that Red Bull is the fastest car. This based on lap times on both high and low fuel levels. If Vettel throws the race away it will be a McLaren win. Otherwise, all Vettel needs to do is his job. He's proved to be very reliable in that aspect this year.

 

[teabagyokel]

Monza pretty much always hands the win to the fastest car.

No it doesn't. The champion hardly ever wins at Monza. So Vettel cannot win the title.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Whitmarsh is maintaining the idea that his cars were the quickest race cars "of the lot" today and says that the starts of both drivers weren't "good enough".

My own personal opinion (which I stated in the Hamilton thread already only to be shot down by his big supporters) is that Lewis wasn't fully alert on the restart and got left out of Vettel's tow leaving him at the mercy of Schumacher.

Lewis' mental error ("napping"; "sleepy restart" - BBC Commentators) cost him dearly because Schumacher was most robust and delayed him (Lewis) to no end.

Now before all the BIG Hamilton fans on this site crucify me, let me say that Hamilton himself has come out and said what I said hours and hours ago...that he was napping and didn't get Vettel's slipstream.

Here:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/9/12517.html

Look at his words.

 

[teabagyokel]

Whitmarsh is maintaining the idea that his cars were the fastest race cars today.

Isn't that your job?

I did notice the fastest lap standings showed Hamilton in P1 and Button in P2, for what its worth.

 

[Galahad]

Both McLarens ran in clear air at various points in the race and never looked like seriously challenging Vettel's pace, albeit that Seb was taking it easy from half distance. I don't think even in a straight fight either would have beaten him - though putting him under more pressure might have uncovered weaknesses in the reliability armour, possibly.

 

[teabagyokel]

I don't think even in a straight fight either would have beaten him - though putting him under more pressure might have uncovered weaknesses in the reliability armour, possibly.

Webber's been under pressure all year, and nursing KERS or DRS or some failure caused by a childhood incident where he crashed through 25 mirrors under a ladder while running down a leprechaun carrying a black cat and stepping on the cracks in the pavement.

 

[Brogan]

My own personal opinion (which I stated in the Hamilton thread already only to be shot down by his big supporters) is that Lewis wasn't fully alert on the restart and got left out of Vettel's tow leaving him at the mercy of Schumacher.
<snip>
Now before all the BIG Hamilton fans on this site crucify me, let me say that Hamilton himself has come out and said what I said hours and hours ago...that he was napping and didn't get Vettel's slipstream.

Do you seriously believe this crap you constantly post?

It really is past tedious now.

No-one denied Hamilton made a poor restart, they just disagreed with your opinion that it would have made much difference.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Do you seriously believe this crap you constantly post?

It really is past tedious now.

No-one denied Hamilton made a poor restart, they just disagreed with your opinion that it would have made much difference.

Have you read Hamilton's comments in the link I posted?

I know this is your website but if what I said is crap then what Lewis Hamilton said is also crap because he's saying the same thing I suggested.

Do you want group think on this site, Brogan?

I had a valid opinion, now backed up by Hamilton's own words.

I suggest you read them before ridiculing me. I'm outta here for the night. Good evening!

 

[Brogan]

I'm talking about the crap related to no-one believing you about the restart.
We all watched the race, we all saw how poor it was.

The disagreement was that it would have made any difference.

I suggest you read the thread again before creating some sort of revisionist version of the discussion.

"Cheers"

 

[ExtremeNinja]

No it doesn't. The champion hardly ever wins at Monza. So Vettel cannot win the title.

That's because Monza requires a very different car. In most seasons, if you are quick everywhere else then you are less likely to be quick at Monza. Most championship winning cars are built with the rest of the season in mind where Monza is an anomaly. KERS and DRS have somewhat changed the playing field in this respect. Worth mentioning that Monza is also the most likely track for a wildcard win, for the same reasons. Vettel's win in the Torro Rosso is a good example of this.

 

[teabagyokel]

It will be interesting, considering McLaren's form in the last three slower events (Monaco, Nurburgring, Hungaroring) to see how close they are in Singapore.

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

Was it me or was the Mclaren bouncing off the rev limiter on the Straights in Monza?
Could this have been the reason why Lewis found it so difficult to overtake Schumacher?

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

The McLarens were geared shorter much closer to Vettel's levels than Alonso's levels and probably Schumacher's levels.

Also, Schumacher's Mercedes rear wing had almost no angle. If you look at the footage, you'll note that McLaren's rear wing looked huge in comparison.

I think therein lay the answer about why Schumacher was able to cover Hamilton on the straight. The straight line speed differential between the two was material...as was the differential of their respective rear wing angles.

 

[Vortex]

Yes he was bouncing off the limiter, you could clearly hear it on the onboard footage when he was in the tow behind Schumacher several times.