Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:

• Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
• Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
• Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
• Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.

Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)

 

[RasputinLives]

So Mclarens problem is Button? Odd take condisering he's the only thing keeping then afloat this season have driven a pretty poor Mclaren to results it prob shouldn't have had.

Not bad for a guy who only gets results when the car is perfect eh?

 

[racecub]

Well they aren't exactly good results. But the only reference point is an inexperienced young driver...who often has Button's legs and frequently out-qualifies him but is inconsistent. No it's not all Buttons fault, I just don't think he's the guy to lead them out of it.

 

[gethinceri]

Then who is, racecub?
Di Resta is not yet a Team Leader in my book, Hulkenberg not yet either.

 

[Mephistopheles]

The highest position in the WDC Button has finished for McLaren (He joined in 2010.) is Second and the highest position Checos predecessor had finished after he won his WDC for McLaren in 2008 is fourth, so I really don't understand where the criticism of the job Jenson has been doing comes from, and why people believe he should be replaced.....

Well I do understand why and where the criticism comes from and it has nothing to do with Jenson's abilities as a racer, a car developer or a team leader....

 

[racecub]

Then who is, racecub?
Di Resta is not yet a Team Leader in my book, Hulkenberg not yet either.

I don't know who is, that's why I said Mclaren were in a difficult position. You're right, Di Resta and Hulkenberg have not proved themselves yet, I offered those name as possibilities, neither are favourites of mine but both have shown promise.

Mephistopheles . Not sure what Checko's predecessor has to do with this, he sure as hell isn't coming back to sort things out!

 

[gethinceri]

I can't see anyone better than Button for McLaren except possibly Kimi.
Not suggesting that will happen, but it would be a hoot to watch!

 

[racecub]

Kimi. That would be interesting. He's a popular boy! Currently linked with Red Bull, Ferrari,Lotus and now McLaren. Where will be ended up?

 

[The Pits]

Well, Paddy Lowe was in charge for the conception of the 2013 challenger, maybe he knew he would be at Merc later?

Fresh engineering and technical heads are required, I believe. I do not think that Jenson is in anyway part of the problem, and as for the car development thing, who really knows. I think the damage was done this season on the design board, not the race track.

As I have said before, and a visit to red bull has confirmed to me that McLaren sit in the large shadow of Ron, and will do so whilst he resides in the MTC corridors of power, like Steve Jobs, or Terry Leahy, whoever follows must be alllowed to be their own man, and with Martin Whitmarsh, I am not sure he has been.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Mephistopheles . Not sure what Checko's predecessor has to do with this, he sure as hell isn't coming back to sort things out!

You suggested that Button hasn't done a good job at Mclaren and isn't the man to drive them forward and I'm saying he has done a better job since 2010 than Lewis has since 2008 and even if Lewis did go back to McLaren he could no more "Sort things out." (As you say.) than Button can, a team isn't made up of a single driver or person it is a team that's why it is called a team without the rest of the team a driver would be sat on his ass watching daytime television at home....

You probably believe that if Lewis was driving for McLaren this year that, McLaren would be taking pole positions and winning races by now....

 

[Mephistopheles]

Well, Paddy Lowe was in charge for the conception of the 2013 challenger, maybe he knew he would be at Merc later?

If Paddy Lowe designed and is responsible for this years McLaren I pity Mercedes next year...

 

[Quintessentially]

It we are going to use championship positions as a basis for judging who has done a better job, Jenson is currently 9th and 133 points behind the championship leader. I don't think Checo's predecessor has ever been this low and so far behind the championship leader half way through a season. Let's not forget that at some critical races last year and without Checo's predecessor (we don't want to mention his name do we before all hell breaks loose), you would've thought the McLaren was a dog of a car in the hands of Button.

 

[Quintessentially]

As I have said before, and a visit to red bull has confirmed to me that McLaren sit in the large shadow of Ron, and will do so whilst he resides in the MTC corridors of power, like Steve Jobs, or Terry Leahy, whoever follows must be alllowed to be their own man, and with Martin Whitmarsh, I am not sure he has been.

Whitmarsh has implemented significant operational changes from the way McLaren operated under Ron so he certainly is being allowed to be his own man. RD certainly would not have chucked away arguably the fastest car at the end of last season in favour of a totally new platform. Rather that not being allowed to be his own, I would argue Whitmarsh has been afforded too much freedom to the detriment of the team.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Okay I'll write a letter to Lewis and ask him if he wouldn't mind "Sorting things out." for McLaren as it is obvious he is the only person on the planet who can, he'll probably say no though, which is a shame, as it would probably only take him a half hour or so, I'll even dog sit Roscoe for him....

 

[Mephistopheles]

I would argue Whitmarsh has been afforded too much freedom to the detriment of the team.

So in your opinion how much, "say" should the CEO of a formula one racing team have? After all he is the top man, the boss, the big cheese, maybe he should go and ask Frank's permission every time he wants to make a decision,,,,,,,,, hang on a mo, he can't do that can he, because it is his job to run the F1 team, he would pretty stupid if he held his hand up every time he wanted to go to the toilet.....

And by the way, this.

Jenson is currently 9th and 133 points behind the championship leader

At past the midpoint of the 2009 season with todays scoring system Lewis would have been sitting on 22 points 161 points behind the leader Jenson Button's tally of 183...

So best not casting aspersions based on that little factoid....

 

[gethinceri]

Whitmarsh would probably make the mistake of talking to Frank though, Mephistopheles.

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

I think we really need to look at the management to apportion blame. Is Whitmarsh Dennis' lapdog and merely implementing Dennis' vision of how the team should be? Because Whitmarsh has been team principal for a while now without actually having much success, I'd tend to think he has some sort of sway with Dennis. We know of Dennis' controlling nature and I doubt very much that he'd give someone free rein to run the team in a manner that he'd be unhappy with.
So in this respect I'd tend to say that it is ultimately Ron's fault that the team are underperforming. This might be why the seemingly obvious step of firing Whitmarsh might not have any effect at all, and would explain why it hasn't happened yet.

Do they need a root & branch clear-out and change of working practices? McLaren's culture to me is somewhat close to that of a large bank. Red Bull appear to typify modern 'dot-com' working and McLaren are staid. I'm not convinced such a staid atmosphere is necessarily the best environment for top engineers, but then that does seem to be their style and perhaps they can continue to work that way. Is it the best way? I don't think so personally.

As for the drivers? No I think Jenson has enough experience to do well given the right car.

 

[racecub]

I agree, Jenson has the experience to do well given the right car, but given the wrong one, like this one, I don't think he's the one to haul it above its position or guide the development direction, he has too narrow an operating window. That's just my opinion.

You could be right about the Dennis/ Whitmarsh situation. Two completely different personalities, but we end up with a watered down version of both, so get the strengths of neither of them.

 

[sushifiesta]

There's a few areas where McLaren have problems....

1) Red Bull

Over the last few years, since 2009, McLaren have regularly taken big risks with their car design or at the very least come up with some very different looking cars. Sometimes this has paid off and sometimes not. In 2011, for example, after pre-season testing they had to abandon their octopus exhaust system in favour of a Red Bull inspired system, it worked but that's not the way you want to start the season (and no one came close to touching Red Bull that year).

Having said that, up until this year McLaren were the only team to be consistently making inroads in to Red Bull and this culminated in 2012 where on average they probably had the fastest car. Then, as we all know, they took the now difficult to justify decision to abandon that car completely for 2013 as they had gone as far as they could with the design of it. The new car started the season as 6th fastest behind Force India.

My feeling is that in order to compete with, or even get anywhere near, the brilliance of the Newey/Vettel combination at Red Bull, McLaren have had to go way out of their comfort zone in the car design and take large gambles, which up until 2013 you could definitely argue have paid off. You also have to look at the alternative - the Ferrari approach. I think Ferrari have been more conservative with their car development, and not taken risks to the same extent that McLaren have, but that's left them in no mans land. Alonso came close to the championship last year, but they were never really quite on the level of the Red Bull/McLaren and it was more a matter of picking up the pieces when others faltered.

Red Bull are able to develop extreme aerodynamic packages that work, McLaren take severe risks to get close, and Ferrari have to settle with the scraps.

2) Operational failures/reliability

When McLaren finally had a car with championship winning potential in 2012 they inexplicably started to make errors left, right and centre. Problems in pit stops, under fuelling in qualifying etc. cost Hamilton, in particular, several podiums and wins in the first part of the season where McLaren had the biggest car advantage.

Then in the second quarter of the season Button's side of the garage seemed to lose their way with the car, most painfully shown in Canada where Hamilton won and Button finished 16th. Quite soon after this spread to Hamilton's side of the garage and they had a spell where they weren't in contention for race wins. McLaren's famed in-season development from 2009 went missing in the year where it could have mattered.

To be fair they did find the car and ended the season strongly, but then reliability gremlins really started to rear there head. McLaren had all the gear but no idea in 2012, some of it you could put down to bad luck and to be fair they have cleaned up the pit stops, but given the car they started with they should have won a championship in 2012.

3) Loss of key personnel
McLaren are one of the biggest teams in F1 but in recent years they have struggled to hold on to key personnel. Pat Fry left for Ferrari and then this year both Hamilton and Paddy Lowe have moved to Mercedes. Before that we had Raikkonen leaving to make way for Alonso, and Alonso leaving one year later after some spectacular fireworks. A bit before that Red Bull, some new team owned by a fizzy drinks company, poached Adrian Newey away from McLaren and we all know how that ended.

It's natural that people want to move to pastures new sometimes, but too many key McLaren figures have left for it just to be normal turnover of staff I think. Should McLaren be going out of their way to keep these people?


If you look at all three points I think it does suggest a lack of someone looking at the big picture. I'm sure it's natural for the car designers to get obsessed with some new, novel idea that is going to make the car 10 seconds faster, but where's the guy who's telling them that they need to make sure the wheels don't fall off and the car doesn't catch on fire every few minutes? And who is talking to these key figures to make sure they have everything they need to be happy in the job and feel like there's nowhere else they want to be? These are things a leader should be doing, and I guess that should be Whitmarsh although I'm always reluctant to criticise him. Maybe it is time for a change?

 

[The Pits]

Quintessentially my belief is that things would be better if Ron had relinquished any power or control over the F1 team, and moved out of the building, and never stepped foot in the MTC again. A great man, undoubtedly, and when he was in charge things would be done his way. Now, with him still being around, everything needs to be done Martins way, but Rons way. I remember a photo being leaked about the new dropped nose, It appears Ron went mad, not because the photo was leaked, but because of the state of the room.

If Martin and all the team are still looking over their shoulders for Ron, they are not going to be able to focus completely on the job in hand.

It is just my theory, and belief however.

All this aside, I am concerned at this years performance, however, there are so many contributing factors, my main worry is straightening these things out ready for next year.

Firstly during development, the numbers seemed to indicate that the car was looking good, Lewis indicated as such when he announced his move to Mercedes, it turns out that the numbers did not reflect reality, an issue which I believe they are now on top of, but, like Ferrari, understanding the cause of these issues is key.

Moving to a high nose concept the year before its removal seems like a poor decision, but understanding why this was deemed to be a good call?

With more of a change in the regs this season than I initially thought there would be, there is going to be further significant change, I would hope that McLaren would be looking for technical staff who can bring something new to the team, they keep referring to strength in depth, and the ability to get parts from concept to car is as good as anyones, however making sure these are all the right parts is critical, and seems to be an area which has failed them this season, possibly due to the possible gains being possible, however the car was designed to enable development so this should not be the case, and if it is, that also needs to be understood.

2009 is usually brought up in these situations, however, I think it not a comparable situation for many reasons. I see 1998 as closer to 2009, as it was the start of a significant change of regulations, and the development opportunity was still large.

So, next season should provide a good opportunity for development, however, McLaren cannot afford to start slowly again, and need to get on top of the issues from this years design process. Hopefully the new guy will help, and some stability within the team will also help, but I do think that they need some fresh blood in the design team.

 

[Quintessentially]

So in your opinion how much, "say" should the CEO of a formula one racing team have? After all he is the top man, the boss, the big cheese, maybe he should go and ask Frank's permission every time he wants to make a decision,,,,,,,,, hang on a mo, he can't do that can he, because it is his job to run the F1 team, he would pretty stupid if he held his hand up every time he wanted to go to the toilet.....

And by the way, this.



At past the midpoint of the 2009 season with todays scoring system Lewis would have been sitting on 22 points 161 points behind the leader Jenson Button's tally of 183...

So best not casting aspersions based on that little factoid....

I was referring to Whitmarsh's role as Team Principal and challenging the notion that he does not have the freedom to implement his own ideas. The evidence would suggest that he indeed does and the current board room arrangements and ownership structure guards against any undue influence from Ron even if he's still a big personality around. If you believe the rumours, Ron has bigger issues to worry about as he is currently locked in a battle with the other shareholders and partners and it looks like they want him out. Beeb run the story back in April

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/22307813


Re - 2009 season. Even without checking the results, Checo's predecessor had won the Hungarian GP at the same stage back then and this would've given him at least 25points so I'm not sure where you get the 22 from. We need not turn this into another Jenson v Checo's predecessor battle however and it may not make pleasant reading for you but McLaren's current WDC and constructors points haul is the worst we've seen for a while after 10races. I'm not convinced this car as as bad as the 2009 car and it is yet to be seen whether they can outscore the rest of the competition for the remainder of the season like 09. This is the right time to evaluate JB's ability to lead the team and help develop the car.