Massa not happy with NPjnr

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
In an interview with Globo television in Brazil Felipe Massa has had a pop at Nelson Piquet Jnr accusing him of costing him the title in 2008.
"All of what happened was robbery - but regarding the race nothing has happened, the result remains the same,"

"This is not right. The robbery changed the outcome of a Championship and I lost (the title)."
Massa has also hit out at the punishment given to Flavio Briatore & Renault, suggesting it should have been more like the annulment of results and relegation punishment handed out to the football teams in Italy caught bribing referees a few years ago.

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5599684,00.html

Not a happy man...
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Whilst I agree that the punishment handed out was wrong, Massa has no claim on the title.

Even without the staged crash there's no guarantee that he would have won the race in Singapore.
And even if he did, who knows what would have happened in the remaining races?
Maybe Massa would have buckled under the pressure of leading the WDC?

Ultimately it was the bungled pit stop that cost Massa points in Singapore, even if that pit stop was triggered by the safety car as a result of Piquet's crash.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
I suppose Massa's problem is the dreaded "what if" question, which I suppose he is entitled to ask.

But you could go back through the entire season and point at lots of other incidents and say "ah, but what if". For example, what if Felipe hadn't spent most of the British Grand Prix pirouetting round in the rain, what if Hamilton had not been penalised in Spa, what if the Toyota had stopped for different tyres in Brazil. Shall I go on?
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Indeed.

Not to mention not being penalised for an unsafe pit lane manoeuvre at the European GP (apart from a fine) or not being penalised when he hit Sébastien Bourdais at the Japanese GP and instead Bourdais being given a 25 second time penalty.

Just think of it as karma Felipe...
 

GeoffP

Thank you and good night
Contributor
This is one that just won't go away, even though Felipe cannot claim the WDC from Lewis because no-one knows what would have happened with this consiracy, maybe F1 should take a leaf out of other environments for where to go.

I am unfortunate enough to have been very close to a situation where a :censored: CEO of my company behaved fraudulently and followed it up with a tad of insider trading and trading during a closed period. Result, he was put away by the FBI, when released the SEC hit him for the financial aspects.

The point here being that the FIA have taken the FBI role and punished Renault and the conspirators for their actions, maybe now FOTA or the actual REAL courts punish them for the damage caused to others and the dangerous nature of their actions.

I have supported where the FIA got to with Renault, but I do feel there are injured parties that have been effected by these actions, and Alonso and Renault personally earned more whereas other individuals/teams could claim otherwise. As a result maybe this sort of behaviour should have a two tiered punishment. This would be more in line with Corporate law, and we have seen UK football governed by the FA AND the law in recent years. I would support genuinely unbiased legal professionals deciding what was the appropriate treatment for the real financial impact and physical risk aspects or the trio's actions (but then, what price Piquet's immunity?).

Bum, I didn't mean to kick that one off again, so I'll finish with Felipe is an injured party, but no the WDC. Someone should hold Renault down while he kicks them in the delicates.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Couldn't agree more Geoff.

There was talk of the Singaporean authorities bringing civil suits but I guess that was probably negotiated away.
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
this could very well be the closest felipe ever will come to a WDC so his statement makes total sense. if LH (or any other driver!) would be in this situation, they would make exactly the same claim.

and as been said before, this will not go away and will remain forever a 'what if'. but LH is the reigning WDC, renault gets to drive another day and i am told sushi is tasty.

it would make F1 a total farce if the 2008 result would be changed almost 1 year later.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
bogaTYR said:
if LH (or any other driver!) would be in this situation, they would make exactly the same claim
After the final race at Brazil in 2007, there was some suggestion that BMW and Williams had been running with irregular fuel but the FIA were unable to prove it.

When asked, Lewis Hamilton said he wouldn't want to win the WDC away from the track after it had gone to Kimi.
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
bro please...

there is not one driver who would not walk to the north pole and back on bare feet carrying his opponent and the car of that opponent to get a WDC!

i take that statement of the kid with more then a pinch of salt, more like the whole salt lake of utah :)
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
bogaTYR said:
bro please...

there is not one driver who would not walk to the north pole and back on bare feet carrying his opponent and the car of that opponent to get a WDC!

i take that statement of the kid with more then a pinch of salt, more like the whole salt lake of utah :)
I'm sorry, but I see no reason why he would be lying. But since the whole thing is utterly irrelevant I'm not going to get into an argument about it!

FB said:
Massa has also hit out at the punishment given to Flavio Briatore & Renault, suggesting it should have been more like the annulment of results and relegation punishment handed out to the football teams in Italy caught bribing referees a few years ago.
Renault's points for 2008 until Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds left the team, should have been annuled and not reallocated. The fact that Renault and Alonso were allowed to keep the 2008 Singapore GP win just beggars belief. I thought Juventus were let off pretty lightly for the old Calciopoli scandal, and Renault have certainly been let off light here.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
The only difference between Hamilton and the other drivers is he was caught lying. They all do it! (The other driver caught lying in the stewards room was only punished for the offence he commited, not for lying. Then again after 1997 he wasn't punished for anything!) Part of the Ron Dennis witchhunt I'm afraid!

Talking of lying, lets go to Nelson "accident" Piquet Jr. Felipe Massa is, and should be, angry that this idiocy seemed to cost him the World Championship, and its a far more politically convienient scapegoat for Felipe than:

  • Staying out a lap too long in Monaco
  • Two first stops at Montreal
  • Engine at Hungary
  • Fuel hose still attached in Singapore

But Nelsinho Piquet did cost Massa the title. At Hockenheim.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Do we need to start a "The Real Reasons Felipe Massa was not WDC in 2008" thread? LOL
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Only if we can also have a "The real reasons why McLaren left Lewis Hamilton out on tyres worn down to the canvas in China" thread LOL
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Can we also have a "Kimi Raikkonen and Michael Schumacher deserved the 2005 and 2006 titles respectively but were let down by unreliable machinery" thread, or would that count as a statement to provoke dischord?

You could argue the vast majority of F1 titles were possibly deserved by someone else (I still think Taku should have won the 2004 title - his was clearly the best package ). I feel that breaking down cars have been the cause of several aspiring World Champions not winning, including the last 4 years:

2005F. AlonsoK. RaikkonenNumerous engine failures
2006F. AlonsoM. SchumacherJapanese GP, engine failure turned 8 point lead into 10 point deficit with one race left
2007K. RaikkonenL. HamiltonFailure in Brazilian GP; surely would have finished 5th+ without stoppage early in race
2008L. HamiltonF. MassaEngine failed on certain win in Hungarian GP with Hamilton in 6th at time!
[td]Year[/td][td]WDC[/td][td]Usurper[/td][td]Cited failure[/td]

The fact is the person who won the WDC won the most points, and did best amongst the situations he was presented with. It is not Lewis' fault that Nelsinho Piquet decided to crash, and his team managed to get him out of the pit-lane without trying to collect a Force India and without a fuel hose attached to his car. Massa should still have been ahead of Hamilton after the crash and hence taken points from him!

Hamilton scored 98 points, Massa 97. There is only one true World Champion, however much we feel sorry for Massa because his head nearly got caved in by a spring or because he was told he'd won it or because he was so close or because he's a nice guy or whatever!
 

sobriety

Pole Sitter
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, and it's pretty but could Ruebens Barichello's more agressive driving style have anything to do with the fact that he's had mroe mechanical failures than Button this year?
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Maybe. It could also be his agressive driving style is why he has beaten Button in the Grand Prix between Britain and Italy. And remember Button's smooth style failed to produce brakes fit for purpose at the end of the 2009 Singapore Grand Prix.
 

sobriety

Pole Sitter
Very true, I remember reading somewhere that although Button brakes more smoothly than Barichello, his final braking input through the pedal is actually more forceful, which could well be why he ate his brakes at the last GP.
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
sobriety said:
Very true, I remember reading somewhere that although Button brakes more smoothly than Barichello, his final braking input through the pedal is actually more forceful, which could well be why he ate his brakes at the last GP.
Not as much as Webber did ;)

Oh and Felipe -
 
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