FIA Flavio Briatore to sue the FIA

[teabagyokel]

I think there should be political maschinations within motorsport to ensure this jackass is never employed again.

Here is my Flavio report card:

Taking credit... B*

Management... B*

Commercialism... B*

Design... B*

OK, he's a total B*!

 

[fat jez]

Nice! Clearly a judge who endorses cheating! So presumably the judge though Briatore was totally innocent and unaware of Piquet's intention to crash or he though the sentence was unfair.

 

[Brogan]

I don't think the case was about the crash or Briatore's involvement.
It was simply that Briatore considered the penalty too heavy and that it had been motiviated by personal prejudice on the part of Mosley.

The judge (and I) agree on this as Mosley simply used his power within the FIA to get rid of someone he's been after for a long time.

After all, if the ban was related to the crash then Pat Symonds and Nelsinho Piquet should also have received lifetime bans, along with Witness X.

 

[fat jez]

After all, if the ban was related to the crash then Pat Symonds and Nelsinho Piquet should also have received lifetime bans, along with Witness X.

Perhaps, but as Team Principal, Briatore ultimately carries the can for any decisions he makes. He should have said at that point to whoever suggested the idea that it was stupid and that if they went ahead with the scheme, they would be publicly sacked. Therefore, since he endorsed it and he was the man in charge, I personally feel his punishment fitted the crime. It will be interesting to see whether this leads to a reduced punishment or no punishment at all. I really hope it's not the latter...

 

[teabagyokel]

Not in legality, Brogan. NPJ was granted immunity for his evidence, Symonds pleaded guilty and hence got a lesser sentence. Alon- Witness X was also granted immunity and anonymity for his evidence.

The judgement was "bringing the sport into disrepute". Briatore undoubtedly did this. Should match-fixing carry a lifetime ban? Yes. So why has the court overturned this? Ridiculous. This precedent would allow ALL sporting suspensions to be overturned.

And if the idea that Moseley's personal vendetta is enough to overturn a punishment in F1 can be extended as far as you like, frankly. Who was the winner of the 2008 Belgian Grand Prix? Lets just recall that case.

• Lewis Hamilton skips a chicane after being forced off the road by Kimi Raikkonen whilst attempting to overtake
• Lewis gains a position, slows on the straight to give it back
• He then overtakes at the end of the straight, despite a huge disadvantage from the previous corner.
• An FIA employee tells McLaren that they are OK!
• Raikkonen slams his car in a wall, ensuring Lewis gained no advantage from overtaking Raikkonen.
• The FIA give Hamilton a 25s penalty.
• The FIA invent a rule after the race saying that what Hamilton did is illegal
• McLaren appeal
• When it looks like McLaren will win their appeal, the FIA deem it inadmissable!

Now, is that not a personal vendetta of Moseley vs McLaren. Did Liegate 2009 (Hamilton) and Liegate 2006 (Schumacher) not get different outcomes.

Every decision the FIA has made for 30 years has been a personal and political one. Every one should hence be overturned!

 

[Brogan]

Well the FIA can do no more directly to Briatore.

They banned Briatore for life (which has now been overturned), gave NP immunity and let Renault off on the condition that they stayed in F1 (which they very nearly didn't do).

The FIA can't now punish Briatore any more simply because the court have overturned their punishment.
All they can do is appeal the verdict.

 

[Brogan]

• The FIA invent a rule after the race saying that what Hamilton did is illegal
• McLaren appeal
• When it looks like McLaren will win their appeal, the FIA deem it inadmissable!

Now, is that not a personal vendetta of Moseley vs McLaren. Did Liegate 2009 (Hamilton) and Liegate 2006 (Schumacher) not get different outcomes.

Every decision the FIA has made for 30 years has been a personal and political one. Every one should hence be overturned!

Couldn't agree more TBY.

All McLaren had to do was go to court - a real one, not the kangaroo court presided over by Mosley.
In all likelihood their case would have been heard and found in their favour.

Perhaps more teams should appeal to outside courts so we start to get fairness and consistency within the sport?

 

[fat jez]

TBH Bro, the whole process should be so fair and transparent that there is no need to go to an outside court. The fact that people do have to resort to such actions suggests that the process put in place by the FIA is fundamentally flawed.

 

[GeoffP]

Well, since the FIA are not the be all and end all of their race series, the immunity they personally offer cannot hold water in the law courts, therefore, let's get Piquet up in front of a judge and hang 'im now...

Oh, and let's not forget that Piquet snr reprted the incident to the FIA in 2008 and was told since he didn't do it himself they couldn't do anything - sounds like Toro Fecundi to me, maybe we should get the FIA official who made that decision in front of a firing squad.

Ah, now, in English law, if a clause is deemed unfair/unenforceable the entire section that relates to that clause is removed from the contract, does that mean, by default that all sentencing the FIA passed in this case is null and void?

I think it's wrong that people like Briatore who are proven to be a controlling mind, complicit and prepared to falsely incriminate others in his defence, should be allowed any position of authority in, well, anything...

I can only hope that the teams, sponsors and drivers all feel the same way!

 

[Brogan]

The fact that people do have to resort to such actions suggests that the process put in place by the FIA is fundamentally flawed.

Precisely.

 

[Brogan]

Oh, and let's not forget that Piquet snr reprted the incident to the FIA in 2008 and was told since he didn't do it himself they couldn't do anything - sounds like Toro Fecundi to me, maybe we should get the FIA official who made that decision in front of a firing squad.

A very good point.
Mosely himself said they couldn't investigate the initial claim on the basis of one person's comments.

For something that serious, no stone should have been left unturned to determine whether it did in fact have any substance.
As it was subsequently discovered, the telemetry was very damning in itself, never mind NP's admission.

 

[cider_and_toast]

I'd like to think that the court who gave this ruling will come up with some way of getting the FIA off the hook on this one becuase it's a bit of a legal tangle if they don't. If the court has ruled that the sanction was too harsh they should also rule on what should be done about it. I.E. FIA to issue lesser sanction or this court imposes a sanction of their own. You can't just take away the punishment and leave it at that.

Whatever happens, Flabio will be as welcome as sand in a condom in F1 circles so I think this is more of a show of strength against Max and the FIA than a bid to return to the sport at some time in the future.

 

[fat jez]

Interestingly, while the court found the FIA verdict to be "irregular" and "The court ruled the sanction was illegal," Briatore was only awarded 15,000 Euros in compensation.

 

[teabagyokel]

As I believe I have said, a lifetime ban was a lenient punishment for an offence of this nature, especially with regards to the sheer unrepentant excrement coming from the Briatore camp.

As for the original crap regarding Piquet Sr. reporting it in 2008; I can only think that the FIA Motorsport Blue-Eyed Boy™ could have lost his win in the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix if it had been investigated then. Or maybe they noticed that Hamilton would have gained in the WDC if Alonso was disqualified!

Either way, the whole damned thing has been ultra-shoddy, and a clear example of the FIA starting to investigate an incident that the whole world knew happened in July; and Felipe Massa and Nelson Piquet Sr. had reported!

Why didn't they just take a cursory glance at the telemetry? Why not evaluate the telemetry from every crash just in case. When Hamilton was caught lying to the stewards, the FIA came out with all sorts of data to prove Hamilton a liar. (Which raises the question of why Hamilton/Ryan's testimony was required!)

It was such an easy case to prove, and it was handled so ineffectively to be unbelievable.

If anyone saw the articulate and intelligent way the Rugby Football Union dealt with "Bloodgate", and compared it to this utter lunacy, they'd think the people were from two different planets. And, frankly, they'd be right!

 

[cider_and_toast]

If anyone saw the articulate and intelligent way the Rugby Football Union dealt with "Bloodgate", and compared it to this utter lunacy, they'd think the people were from two different planets. And, frankly, they'd be right!

Uh, You mean, throw the book at the player involved in the initial inquiry then sit back and do nothing. When said player realises he is going to have to carry the can for the whole team he then goes on record saying that he has more information to give. So re-open the enquiry. Give player lesser punishment for coming clean (saving own skin), punish a couple more people so that that everyone feels better. MAKE NO PUNISHMENT AT ALL AGAINST TEAM INVOLVED IN MATCH FIXING WHEN IT WAS CLEAR THEY ATTEMPTED TO WIN A GAME BY CHEATING. ALOW TEAM INVOLVED TO CONTINUE TO COMPETE IN COMPETITION.

Very articulate and intellignent if you ask me.

 

[FB]

Let's be honest, Flabio has a defacto life time ban as no one with any sense woudl give him a job in F1 would they? Oh, hang on, Beardy "I want to win at all costs" Branson is now hanging about the pit lane - Flavio Briatore - Team Principal of Virgin Grand Prix anyone?

 

[Brogan]

It wasn't just the team principle job which the ban stopped him from doing though, it was anything related to F1.

So presumably now he can continue being an agent, carry on with his TV rights business and any other ventures he has related to F1.

So while I agree no team in their right mind would employ him, that doesn't stop him being involved in other areas.

 

[teabagyokel]

If anyone saw the articulate and intelligent way the Rugby Football Union dealt with "Bloodgate", and compared it to this utter lunacy, they'd think the people were from two different planets. And, frankly, they'd be right!

Uh, You mean, throw the book at the player involved in the initial inquiry then sit back and do nothing. When said player realises he is going to have to carry the can for the whole team he then goes on record saying that he has more information to give. So re-open the enquiry. Give player lesser punishment for coming clean (saving own skin), punish a couple more people so that that everyone feels better. MAKE NO PUNISHMENT AT ALL AGAINST TEAM INVOLVED IN MATCH FIXING WHEN IT WAS CLEAR THEY ATTEMPTED TO WIN A GAME BY CHEATING. ALOW TEAM INVOLVED TO CONTINUE TO COMPETE IN COMPETITION.

Very articulate and intellignent if you ask me.

I mean they gave Williams a huge ban to force him to appeal and hence flush out Richards and the doctors. Personally, I'd have banned Quins from the H-Cup* as well.

*French spelling!

 

[snowy]

Flavio's football activities and concerns were also in grave danger as the rules governing football team ownership prohibit people who have been banned from other sporting management offices.

So this was a battle he really had to win.

It shows just how inept the FIA and their lawyer's are, they've been flinging around suspect verdicts and penalties for years, trusting that no one would have the cohones to fight them in a proper court of law.

If they'd given him a sensible term for the ban and a big fine then he'd have gone away and done something else and probably would never have returned. Now he's going to make a point of doing something in F1, even if it's only sticking the knife in every chance he gets.

 

[Brogan]

To add insult to injury...

The FIA has been ordered to tell the public and teams that the bans from motor sport imposed on Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds for their part in Formula 1's race-fix scandal have been lifted.

A bit more flesh regarding the verdict:

"The FIA ... can sanction licence holders, leaders, members of the ASNs [national sporting authorities], but it cannot with respect to third parties, take measures equivalent to a sanction - in contravention of article 28 of its statutes," the verdict read.

"The World Council, by forbidding FIA members and licences to work with Messrs Briatore and Symonds, on the one hand added a negative condition – to not work with them – which is not provided for within the FIA statutes."

The verdict also suggested there was a conflict of interest in the ban, as former FIA president Max Mosley was already in dispute with Briatore – and he played a part in both the investigation of the matter and the handing down of the penalty.

The court judgement added: "The decision of the World Council was presided over by the FIA president, who was well known to be in conflict with Briatore, with Mr. Mosley having played a leading role in launching the enquiry and its investigation in violation of the principle of separation of the power of the bodies.

"The decision [of the FIA World Motor Sport Council] is not annulled but declared irregular, and rendered without effect in its provisions against Mr. Briatore and Mr. Symonds."

Interesting that the court ruled the decision "irregular" and not "annulled".
I suspect that means that the FIA can't impose any other sanction?

Note the highlighted comment regarding Mosley and his conflict of interest.
What a shame McLaren never went to court over their huge fine, I suspect that too would have been annulled or reduced for the same reason.