Current Fernando Alonso

Suprised there's no thread (although I had one for his blogs), so i'll start off:

A double world championship vs Raikkonen and then Schumacher in 2005 and 2006 respectively elevated Alonso's status but, apparently, no one told his rookie teammate at his brand new team of a theoretical 'pecking order' the following season ... and the Spaniard was 'seen off' by the young Englishman, Hamilton, into two years of Wilderness while both Hamilton and an even younger Vettel began to make their mark through '08 and '09.

Arguably, Alonso was in the Top 3 of all the Formula One 'Aces' in the 2000s following Hakkinen's retirement - up there with either Schumacher/Raikkonen and, then, Raikkonen/Hamilton - and remains so in the early 2010s along with Hamilton/Vettel...with only Kubica knocking on the door until the Pole's horrible Rallying accident.

A question mark initially over 2004 during which Trulli lead him in the standing until the Italian fell out with ex-manager and team boss Flavio Briatore (Alonso's then business manager) under dubious circumstances after the French Grand Prix.

Another question mark is...Who has progressed more since the end of 2007: Hamilton or Alonso?

A fan. Then came the unfortunate blackmail allegations against McLaren boss Ron Dennis on the morning of the 2007 Hungarian GP which came to light at the highly costly FIA 'Spy-Gate' hearings before Spa...followed by the odour of the deliberate crashing of the Number 2 Renault car at Singapore in 2008 which lead to Alonso finishing 1st in the event and ended in the banning of Briatore and Pat Symmonds a year later.

2009 was a poor year with 'Nando's' mind likely on the prospect of Santander paving the way to better prospects at Maranello one year earlier.

2010 was a fresh start at Ferrari (who no longer had Schumacher walking through the premises regularly) but first half season mistakes ultimately cost him a title inspite of being infamously aided by a Team Orders switch w Massa at Hockenheim (which lead to more world-wide criticism).

Relatively fast, relatively consistent but prone to mistakes and a possible insecurity complex (*) based on wanting sole focus from a team and being only happy with a Number 2 in the other car running behind him. Anything else and it seemingly rattles him.

(*) This is my own personal opinion.

..and so to 2011...

He's underperformed only at Malaysia (hit Hamilton) and China (invisible while Massa challenged McLarens and Red Bulls) and, arguably, Canada...but has maximized his chances in the other 6 races culminating in the British GP win.

He said in his post-Monaco blog that 'Silverstone would be the WDC cut-off'...and so, after some major upgrades, the Ferrari looks a winner again. It might be too late for 2011 given Vettel's finishing rate...but the 2012 regs means they should keep the hammer down at Maranello.

He's signed on through to 2016...So hopes are high of a WDC at some juncture...but not yet.
 
It could have been but Raikkonen was still much further back in 2007...and the Finn actually won. Alonso didn't win.

Too many mistakes in the first half of the year...and then in Belgium and also Abu Dhabi where he lost position to Button (who was on the dirty side) and then deciding to focus on keeping Webber behind as opposed to chasing Vettel.

His tactical ability is poor and based on Brundle praising him at Singapore 2008 which we all now know was Renault cheating so Alonso could win. Briatore, Symmonds and Piquet Jr (all now banned from Formula One because of the cheating) were the 'tacticians' that helped him 'win' that day. Shameless!

It was well documented that Ferrari in the first half of 2010 like 2011 were pretty much pants so I am not to sure mistakes really come to the fall, in Monaco crashing in FP3 and Montreal he got held up by a back marker not moving off the racing side of the track out of turn 2/3 which allowed Button to pass which was the gutt checker. Abu Dhabi was not Alonso but his race controllers decision to pit so hardly anything to do with his tactics.

I see that you find it easy to implicate Alonso in the 'crash gate' this despite all evidence to the contrary. You are also lastly trying to justify a postion to a driver that is no longer in F1 and mostly because he refuses(d) to drive for anyone outside the contending sides or sides with money to pay him.
 
It was well documented that Ferrari in the first half of 2010 like 2011 were pretty much pants so I am not to sure mistakes really come to the fall,

I am not agreeing with Ray here, but the Ferrari in the first half of the season was not "pants" and it certainly wasn't as bad as the 2011 car, it got a 1-2 in it's first race, Malaysia weather conditions cost them as did Australia, yet both drivers led the title up to round 4 or was it 5. The only time I remember that car being "pants" was in Turkey....

The F60 is a Ferrari recenlty which you can call "pants" or the F150 Italia but that isn't as bad.
 
Are you implying that Alonso had a hand in Trulli's dismissal from the Renault team?

Does it not seem to be more likely that Trulli went out of favour becaue he no longer had Briatore as his manager?

I think that you should think a little more deeply about what happened first of all at Monaco and then Hungary. One place to start is at http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/05/the-stewards-verdict-on-mclaren-alonso/ . Despite being written by an admitted Hamilton fan it does include the events that weekend leading up to the furore.

As to Singapore 2008 the FIA hired a team of professional investigators who came to the conclusion that there was no evidence against Alonso. Of course you may know better.

It might even be due to the Renault being a poor car.

What mistakes would those be?

The team orders broadcast ...

By the way, what happened to the "blown away" bit in the original article?

No, I don't know why you think that.

Yes, very likely.

I don't need to think too deeply about anything. I'm merely reporting what happened at Hungary. When you allegedly blackmail your employer, you're not going to remain on good terms.

Why are you suggesting that my OP implies that Alonso was part of the cheating conspiracy that allowed him to finish 1st at Singapore?

The Renault was a poor car but Renault were saying Alonso lost motivation because he knew he was on his way out...to Ferrari.

Mistakes: Australia, China, Monaco...all cost him points.

I'm reporting a fact about the Team Orders controversy at Hockenheim. Why get defensive?

What "blown away" bit?
 
I am not agreeing with Ray here, but the Ferrari in the first half of the season was not "pants" and it certainly wasn't as bad as the 2011 car, it got a 1-2 in it's first race, Malaysia weather conditions cost them as did Australia, yet both drivers led the title up to round 4 or was it 5. The only time I remember that car being "pants" was in Turkey....

The F60 is a Ferrari recenlty which you can call "pants" or the F150 Italia but that isn't as bad.

Bahrain was due to some fortune, Malaysia Alonso lost his engine on the penultimate lap, and in Aus Massa decided to go as slow as humanly possible, Hungary and Turkey along with Belgium where mares, that said Ferrari from race 1 to somewhere around the 9th or 10th race have been found to be behind the other contenders.
 
It was well documented that Ferrari in the first half of 2010 like 2011 were pretty much pants

What's the documented evidence?

1-2 to start the year; Massa leading the WDC after round 3; The car was fast enough in China and Monaco to Podium or even win according to pundits ... but Alonso jumped the lights from Row two...and then crashed the car in Monaco FP3. The car was very fast in Montreal.

Where's your documented evidence? Turkey yes. Possibly Spain (where Alonso finished 2nd after Hamilton retired).

Pants? Not quite.
 
What's the documented evidence?

1-2 to start the year; Massa leading the WDC after round 3; The car was fast enough in China and Monaco to Podium or even win according to pundits ... but Alonso jumped the lights from Row two...and then crashed the car in Monaco FP3. The car was very fast in Montreal.

Where's your documented evidence? Turkey yes. Possibly Spain (where Alonso finished 2nd after Hamilton retired).

Pants? Not quite.

And despite all that found themselves trailing Hamilton, Webber and to lesser extents Button and Vettel by Silverstone:unsure:, finishing here and there well then finishing 6-7 cars behind the contenders means that it was not as good as the Mclarens and to lesser extent the Redbull with reliability issues.
 
And despite all that found themselves trailing Hamilton, Webber and to lesser extents Button and Vettel by Silverstone:unsure:.

With due respect, you're not prepared to be objective even after we've pointed out the competitive nature of the Ferrari cars through most of the 1st half of the 2010 season, except perhaps, Turkey and Spain. Alonso made mistakes which account for his relative positioning. In Australia, China, Monaco, Canada and also Silverstone (when he illegally overtook Kubica and didn't bother to give back the spot immediately).

I'm not going to argue with you anymore on this point. Your definition of "pants" is a little skewed because you want/expect Ferrari to have the fastest and best car on the grid every year and that's not how it works most of the time.
 
Could I please ask that you refrain from personal insults. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, you may agree or disagree but there is no need whatsoever to make it personal. Rational, even excitable, debate is not a problem but please don't try to drag this forum into a 6-0-6 type name calling arena as it won't happen.

Thank you.
 
It wasn't really Alonso's fault that Button clipped him on the first corner in Melbourne was it? The result was that Alonso re-joined the race at the tail but from there managed to catch Massa.

Malaysia Alonso had an engine failure, perhaps you would let him off that one?

This is a thread on Alonso. If there was no implication of any responsibility by him in the Trulli and Piquet Jr. affairs why mention them?

Unless one understands the events which started coming to a head at Hungary in Q3 and how they progressed from there Alonso's actions can be totally misconstrued. Yes, he was wrong to react in that way but I suspect that there are a number of drivers who would have finished up assaulting the person who started it all off.

Did anyone watch the free practice sessions at Monaco last year? The back end of the Ferrari seemed to have a will of it's own, both drivers had to make quick corrections throughout all three sessions. Massa was very lucky to get away with it on at least one occasion.
 
It wasn't really Alonso's fault that Button clipped him on the first corner in Melbourne was it...

Malaysia...

...This is a thread on Alonso. If there was no implication of any responsibility by him in the Trulli ... affair... why mention (it)?

...Yes, he was wrong to react in that way but I suspect that there are a number of drivers who would have finished up assaulting the person who started it all off.

Did anyone watch the free practice sessions at Monaco last year? The back end of the Ferrari seemed to have a will of it's own...

Alonso planted his car on the white line on the wet starting grid and, as a result, got wheelspin and a poor start...that was BEFORE the tangle with Button. That's his mistake and no one else's.

Where did I mention Malaysia? I mentioned China.

I mentioned Trulli in the OP because he was beating Alonso up until the fall-out. We're looking at Alonso's career as a whole so I alluded to Trulli's WDC position v Alonso's as a matter of record. Fair?

Hardly a mature thing to do, 'assaulting' someone...Again, you don't go around allegedly blackmailing your employer and expect them to bend over for you.

That Ferrari was a podium car at Monaco regardless. Kubica got it instead for Renault.
 
You did indeed mention China. Where Alonso jumped the start, got a drive through and then had the commentators complaining that it hadn't really cost him anything. 3rd on the grid, finished 4th, hardly a disaster.

But you are still obfuscating over 2007. Never mind, we all have our own opinions.
 
Ray/Bill - there really is no need for these sort of tit for tat responses. It's a sports discussion forum no one has been indited by the Supreme Court.
 
Ray/Bill - there really is no need for these sort of tit for tat responses. It's a sports discussion forum no one has been indited by the Supreme Court.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe it's true after all what they say about Alonso. Controversy just follows him. Even when he's not actually there. :)
 
Yea. Tell that to Ron Dennis who had his pocket picked for $100 Million in 2007...and Briatore and Symmonds who were basically retired from the sport in 2009 (for 2008) ... and Massa who was crucified back home in Brazil for Hockenheim, 2010 and never recovered after that. According to di Montezemolo, Felipe' "sent his brother to drive" there after! Hehe LOL

So, Nando was, presumably, never "actually there"! It was his Evil Twin! :snigger:
 
I'm cautious to display any sort of opinion about Alonso, because after McLaren 07 and the fall out the with Ron Dennis (We were repeatedly told he fell out with Hamilton), the British journalists turned on him and he can't do a thing right in their eyes (I'm sure they must have tainted my opinion somewhat). Although he has a general dislike of media. I vaguely remember earlier on in the year that he got angry with some journo's for talking to him whilst on holiday. Still, he will be remembered for the driving before anything else, like Piquet or Senna.
 
Ray, I don't think you can reasonably claim Fernando has an insecurity complex - I don't think he would have said he's going to win the world championship while being 41 points behind if he was insecure. Do you?
Yes, he likes to build the team around him, but I think Fernando is in it for himself and not someone else. He knows he is fast, he knows what he can do and I don't think he cares what anyone thinks about him.

It's true that controversy follows him around but he definitely seems a different man this year. It appears as if he's able to keep his emotions in check now, instead of getting upset when something doesn't go according to plan.

All in all, I have massive amounts of respect for his abilities and I have a lot of respect for him as a person, too.
 
Back
Top Bottom