FIA Farce India

KekeTheKing

Banned
Supporter
What have we learned today?

Overtaking under double waved yellows while the stricken car is still in view and the electronic yellow flag is still in effect is entirely permissible.

Setting a representative sector after the stricken car has been completely removed and the electronic yellow flag has disappeared will result in a grid penalty.


And I actually feel worse for Perez who got called in just so it wouldn't look like Hamilton was getting singled out.

I cannot believe for a single second that Sergio and Lewis did anything more dangerous than any of the other dozens of cars that passed the scene on at least 3-4 occasions.
 

Josh

Champion Elect
Do you see the flag being waved? And have you read tby's post:


The yellow section was ended by the green light, ergo before that light he was still under YFC.
And have you read this?

Hamilton said he had no argument with the stewards' decision.
"I was engaging the DRS (overtaking device, which boosts straight-line speed) when the yellow flags were on and you're not allowed to," he said
"I went in there and put my hands up and said I accept whatever penalty I get and they gave me one.
"I don't have any feelings. It is what it is. I'm a bit frustrated with myself as it's my fault - as usual.
"I just have to do what I can from wherever I qualify tomorrow. I have less hopes of pole - but tomorrow could be a different day."
Asked why he was being so self-critical, Hamilton replied: "I have no-one else to blame do I? There's only me driving."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/15489950.stm
They should have penalized Jenson but Hamilton and Perez are not the victims of some massive conspiracy here. Sorry.
 

GeoffP

Thank you and good night
Contributor
Interesting - I hadn't seen this before and it was starting to come across as a bit of a Hamilton Fan chest beating session.

It is complicated, there were green lights, but then there were waved yellow flags...

It seems that the flags should have stopped being waved, but they WERE being waved, so still apply...

The Marshall waving the flags was behind an obstruction limiting the extent of the view, but they were still being waved and visible from the track...

The flags were being waved opposite/after the incident that everyone knew about, which had been cleared, but then what certainty is there that there was no new incident?

I think Lewis has been hardly done by, but since the flags were being waved the rule must be enforced. It has to be safety first - if the Marshall is a complete numb-nuts that is a separate issue the race stewards must address, but whilst he is in his role his instructions must be followed.

So my feeling - fine for the Stewards, have a long and interesting chat with the Marshall.

By the way, if you were driving down a road and saw two signs before a corner, one 70mph sign and one saying Bridge Out, which would you follow?
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Hmmm, I take everything back I said on the other thread.

The yellow indicator on the screen was not visible when Hamilton was going past.
It was when Button overtook though.

So why the penalty for one and not the other?
 

The Pits

Harumph. Again.
Valued Member
Maybe he would not have been looked at if he had not set the fastest time of the session? I am not sure how fast Sergio Perez was in relation to his other times, but I see that there is no real interest in looking at why his transgression was unfairly punished, however, assuming that this was simply so Lewis was not on his own is a smidge preposterous.

Also, Lewis mentioned about using DRS under yellow flags, rather than anything else, that and the waved yellows were evident in the foreground prior to the green all clear.

Should Jenson have been brought in? probably, although maybe his lap being slower, and his sector time being slower meant that he did not draw attention to the incident.

No, it can only be because the FIA, FOM, and MFI all have a vendetta against Lewis.
 

Viscount

Pole Sitter
Contributor
Hmmm, I take everything back I said on the other thread.

The yellow indicator on the screen was not visible when Hamilton was going past.
It was when Jenson overtook though.

So why the penalty for one and not the other?

Probably because if Jenson hadn't passed when Narain hit the brakes we might have seen a repeat of Webber hitting Kovalainen in Valencia.
 

KekeTheKing

Banned
Supporter
So why the penalty for one and not the other?

There can be no other explanation than Jenson getting on the radio and acting hard done by. When you think about it, his complaint flies in the face of "safety standards". That's what makes this ordeal so appalling.

edit -

Probably because if Jenson hadn't passed when Narain hit the brakes we might have seen a repeat of Webber hitting Kovalainen in Valencia.

This is beyond absurd.
 

no-FIAt-please

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
To be fair to Button he shouldn't have recieved a penalty for Karthikeyan slowing down too much, he did the right thing in passing him. No penalty should be applied.

Hamilton passed the the yellow flag when the yellow light on his steering wheel had gone. Davidson also said the lights are much easier to see than the flags from the cockpit, therefore we can deduce it is likely Hamilton saw the light on his wheel had gone off and saw the green light on the track and resumed full speed. No penalty should be applied.

Was it just the last sector he is meant to have passed the yellow flags at full speed?
 

The Pits

Harumph. Again.
Valued Member
So, both Sergio Perez and Lewis set their fastest times when the flags were out. Jenson we know did not. But the only reason Jenson got away with it is because he was all upset on the radio. Like in Australia, and Japan, they both worked for him, so clearly the only plausible explanation.

So, my position, there were waved yellows, whether there should have been there or not is not really the issue. There are bigger questions around what his dash would have been telling him, I guess, but I think that the penalty, whilst some see it as harsh, is in line with the regs. I may have to read up on the regs about overtaking under yellows in practice sessions.
 

Viscount

Pole Sitter
Contributor
I cannot believe for a single second that Sergio and Lewis did anything more dangerous than any of the other dozens of cars that passed the scene on at least 3-4 occasions.

I don't think it was just that last lap alone Hamilton was given a penalty for, on his previous lap at 36 seconds left in session he passes Maldonado's with DRS activated as it's being lifted by the crane and sets a time a tenth off P1.
 

KekeTheKing

Banned
Supporter
My position on this should be made clear. And then I'm done. No need to keep rehashing this all day.

Hamilton (Perez was dragged in too) has been penalized for a miscommunication between the FIA (Charlie) and an inexperienced marshall getting to wave his flags around for the first time in his inaugural event. It's obvious from every single form of electronic display that the Yellow Flag period had ended. Hamilton's dash, the TV's on-screen display, and the Live Timing feed all indicate the area was completely clear.

Lew1.jpg
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Ah hell, not you as well Keke.

The drivers have to obey the marshal's signal whether the marshal's signal is being displayed correctly or not. I should have thought the reasons for this were abundantly clear.

Hamilton did not lift despite the yellow flags. If he had, the stewards would have taken the team's telemetry into account as they did in Alguersuari's case later on (and numerous previous instances). It is accepted that as long as you lift, you've acknowledged the danger, so it's not really a question of whether what Hamilton and Perez did was more or less dangerous than the other cars passing the scene.

As far as Button is concerned, the camera angle foreshortens it but Karthikeyan did appear to be going very slowly. In its own way that may be viewed as dangerous. I don't know what speed he was doing at the time; I hope the stewards did at least investigate it. But that's a call for an additional penalty - it doesn't exonerate Hamilton from responsibility, does it?
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
I don't think it was just that last lap alone Hamilton was given a penalty for, on his previous lap at 36 seconds left in session he passes Maldonado's with DRS activated as it's being lifted by the crane and sets a time a tenth off P1.

Yes - this is what Hamilton was punished for - not the final lap, but the previous lap - or at least that's what Autosport says!
 

KekeTheKing

Banned
Supporter
It is INCONCEIVABLE that only Hamilton and Perez failed to lift during that extended yellow flag period. INCONCEIVABLE.

Trust me G, I'm as pissed off as anyone that I have to take up Lewis' defense again. ****ING PISSED!
 

Josh

Champion Elect
It is INCONCEIVABLE that only Hamilton and Perez failed to lift during that extended yellow flag period. INCONCEIVABLE.

Trust me G, I'm as pissed off as anyone that I have to take up Lewis' defense again. ****ING PISSED!

Maybe you should step away from the computer then? Clear your head and then look at it again? Rules are rules.
 
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