EBD.Here to stay.

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
I suppose in theory that the heat still generated by the brakes could be used in some way.Not sure how you could do that though.
Some form of heat exchanger maybe.Possibly some sort of generator driven by the airflow from the back of car. They have increased the minmum weight by a fair chunk.Up to 660kg.
Beats me that one.
 

Grizzly

Bear
Contributor
I see what your saying, heat is a waste product, but I'm not sure how you could harvest it away from engine generated heat! I'm not sure that a car has much energy other than chemical and kinetic at its disposal and the chemical is changed in to kinetic? :s

I'm also not sure that off throttle EBDs can continue since they are already ruled out now aren't they? with a period of grace that runs up to Silverstone??
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
There is a difference between an EBD and teams igniting fuel in the exhaust off-throttle. From Charlie Whiting's interview with the BBC at Monaco I don't think there's any intention to ban a 'classic' EBD setup.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
This is all I can find about EBD

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2011/Pages/f1-conf-esp-qa.aspx Why does the FIA believe that the use of blown diffuser technology may be illegal when used with certain engine maps.

It became apparent to us, through examination of data, that what we thought was a fairly benign feature was turning into something that was being used, in our opinion, illegally. An exhaust system is there for the purpose of exhausting gasses from the engine and when you’re off-throttle, it isn’t doing that any more. Therefore it’s being used to influence the aerodynamic characteristics of the car. We think arguably, this infringes Article 3.15 of the technical regulations.

Why has this issue been raised now, rather than last season, over the winter period, or earlier this year.

Simply because these things start off little, appearing to be quite benign. They then get worse and worse. Now we are faced with the possibility of even more extreme systems coming along. We felt it was time to do something about it.

Why has the FIA revised its intention to ban the devices immediately

In light of what we’ve learned since sending the first note to the teams, we felt it needed more discussion. Having already discussed it with a few of the engine manufacturers, we felt it was not right to rush something through. We are always open to constructive debate.

We are going to discuss it on June 16th at the next Technical Working Group meeting. We’ll come up with an introduction plan after that. We’ve made it clear in a follow-up note that we still maintain these systems arguably contravene the regulations. We are not backing off on the principal, we are just backing off slightly on the planned introduction.
 

ATL11

Podium Finisher
I suppose in theory that the heat still generated by the brakes could be used in some way.Not sure how you could do that though.
Some form of heat exchanger maybe.Possibly some sort of generator driven by the airflow from the back of car. They have increased the minmum weight by a fair chunk.Up to 660kg.
Beats me that one.
I know Virgin trains reuse the energy from their brakes on the train to allow a Mr Shuttleworth from Sale power his Laptop whilst on his way to London. So how would they transfer the energy from the front brake discs to something in the engine management system of the car? Or would they just use the rear brakes? If that is the case wouldn't some Eco warrior say F1 are only using 50%, so it's just lip service to the cause............
 

Mryzyz

Rookie
I thought the legality EBDs was never an issue.

It is the off-throttle burning of fuel that they are looking to limit?
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
I know Virgin trains reuse the energy from their brakes on the train to allow a Mr Shuttleworth from Sale power his Laptop whilst on his way to London. So how would they transfer the energy from the front brake discs to something in the engine management system of the car? Or would they just use the rear brakes? If that is the case wouldn't some Eco warrior say F1 are only using 50%, so it's just lip service to the cause............

That system on Virgin trains is virtually the same as any KERS system.The brakes don't generate any enegy except heat.
Which is at the moment just released to atmosphere.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
Hmmm they use those in truck racing.Have to carry a lot of water which is quite heavy.
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
Hmmm they use those in truck racing.Have to carry a lot of water which is quite heavy.
One kilo per litre, in fact. The other addition that would be necessary would be a radiator of some kind since it would need to be a sealed system. Problems weight wise and with regard to locating the system in the chassis. Anything like that is a problem for designers trying to optimise every square millimetre and milligram.
 

Mryzyz

Rookie
Surely something like liquid nitrogen would be more weight effecient and effective?

Some computers use liquid helium to cool the processor, I'm sure it's do-able.
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
There might then be a problem of excessive cooling. The brakes need to be hot enough to work. With water the temperature can be controlled but regulating helium or nitrogen? it's an interesting question. I'd be quite interested to know the answer to that one.
 

Mryzyz

Rookie
You could control how much you put on, I would have thought?

The main problem I could forsee would be the liquid evaporating before it actually touches the brakes.
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
If it is an open and therefore " total loss" system we still have an issue with regard to storage and the necessary ducting and tubing to deliver the gas or liquid to the brake discs. I wonder what the benefit would be. I'm also not sure where this is going since the relationship between energy recovery and forced cooling is not at all clear to me here. If we were trying to capture and redirect the heat into the energy recovery process, then that might have some bearing but then we are back to using water because of its heat conducting properties and incorporating heat exchanging devices to harness the energy.
 
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