Diffusers? Are they....

[McZiderRed]

I'm so confused! (I know, you all knew that already...)

On the one hand, we have an article which says that Ross Brawn offered to 'tidy up' the rules regarding the technical whogemaflip about diffusers 12 months ago, on the other hand we have an article which says that Flavio Briatore reckons Ross, as FOTA representative, wasn't entirely forthcoming with information - "He knew he had an advantage and he didn't say it."

Who's to be believed, Ross or Flav? Is this the essence of the FIA meeting today?
If so, I could save them a lot of time & bother.....

A lot of comment has been made, on this & other message boards, about the FIA shooting feet and such, but as with most things FIA, it's not the FIA that gets hit!
What are the consequences of banning/allowing split level diffusers. Will common sense or politics prevail? Surely, either the diffusers are legal, as deemed by the stewards already, or they are illegal. If they are illegal, then the points from the first two races are the question. The common sense thing to do would be to let them stand? Or not?

Now I must admit, most technical stuff about this diffuser lark goes sailing above my head, so articles like this on F1Fanatic regarding the technical versus the political decisions make it easier for me to comprehend the issues at stake. I think common sense would suggest that the FIA should uphold the right (technical) decision and not kowtow to any political pressure, but common sense & FIA rarely share the same decade, let alone the same sentence. Am I right? Dare you make a bet? If not, just vote above with no monetary commitment.... And maybe, as I think it was Teabagyokel said, the FIA may read this board and take us into consideration?

 

[Brogan]

Re: Deffusers? Are they....

My personal opinion is that the diffusers are within the rules if not the spirit of the regulations.

The idea this season was to improve overtaking possibilities by removing dirty air and the split level diffusers don't help as the air exiting the diffuser is a lot lower than with a conventional diffuser and hence causes problems for cars following closely behind.

As for the FIA's ruling, who knows
I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

 

[Galahad]

I think they're legal. Teams have never been expected to design cars to the spirit of the regulations.

If it is true that the diffusers make it harder for following cars, and I shouldn't think the effect would be massive, then the FIA should reword the regulation to outlaw them for 2010 and leave things as they are for now.

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

The diffusers are legal,
They are legal because of loopholes in the regluations and also cause of unclear rules. It's is the FIA's job to make sure there are not loopholes. Not the Teams responsability mot to exoplit them. It has been the same in the past Teams have always bent rules and expolited loopholes you look at the major names of f1 McLaten, Lotus, Ferrari, Brabham, Williams, and so many others they have all done it in the past. The reson theres is this debate about this is because 7 teams are wishing that they had done the same and I feel the are some sour grapes there.

 

[veravista]

Technically they must be legal, otherwise they would have been outlawed the first time they were presented for scrutineering. They must be allowable within the terms of the regulations.
Having said that, if the regulations are written in such away as to allow such an interpretation then they are simply badly written. The problem is that they have become so complex that they have lost their way, and the teams can allocate teams of engineers to think their way around them. What is so complex about a statement such as 'the underside of the car must consist of an entirely flat plane that is between x and y mm above the ground bounded by the outside bodywork of the vehicle'. But, oh no, they have to blather on about bounding planes, diffuser areas and all the technical stuff that they understand considerably less than the guys designing the cars.
Ross Brawn had a hand in the drafting of the regulations, and suprise, suprise his cars take advantage of a 'loophole' - nothing that any other engineer in his position wouldn't have done.
Maybe the FIA should accuse him of lying and demote him to 4th in the team....

 

[FB]

I need a "Diffusers are legal - Points will be kept - Multi deck diffusers will be banned" option. If you think back Ferrari and Renault kept their points for the flexible floor and mass damper systems but they were then banned. Going further back to the early 80's, weren't the teams using "cooling" water tanks allowed to keep their points but had to stop using them?

Never sure why the hydraulic suspension of 1981 wasn't banned though...

 

[Brogan]

They're legal.

The FIA International Court of Appeal has decided to deny the appeals submitted against decisions numbered 16 to 24 taken by the Panel of the Stewards on 26 March at the 2009 Grand Prix of Australia and counting towards the 2009 FIA Formula One World Championship.

Based on the arguments heard and evidence before it, the Court has concluded that the Stewards were correct to find that the cars in question comply with the applicable regulations.

Full reasons for this decision will be provided in due course.

From here: International Court of Appeal - Decision

 

[Speshal]

I glad they have been deemed legal, it would have been a bit strange if 3 separate sets of designers had all read the regulations wrong.

Cue the rest of the teams having a a few late nights in the coming weeks/months - we have a separate race now - that of the designers seeing who can get it right quickest.

Oh and can you hear that? That high pitched whining sound?

Yeah?

That's Mark Webber winding up for a good old moan

 

[Brogan]

At least now the teams can just concentrate on racing instead of this nonsense.
Well, all but 1 of the teams can...

It will be interesting to see the reasons why they dismissed the appeals and consider the diffusers legal.

 

[RickD]

Oh and can you hear that? That high pitched whining sound?

Yeah?

That's Mark Webber winding up for a good old moan

Yeah, fully expect him to go into orbit on this one..

 

[RickD]

The judges in Paris heard evidence from both sides, with Ferrari's legal representative, Nigel Tozzi QC, describing Brawn GP team boss Ross Brawn as "a person of supreme arrogance".

This comment is one that gets me, how can Ferrari say that after all the years of winning he gave them? Do you think they are slightly bitter by any chance?

From here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 996698.stm

 

[FB]

And Brawn's criticism of Ferrari consultant Rory Bryne and Red Bull technical guru Adrian Newey saw sparks fly in the courtroom, with the Englishman refusing to retract his statements.

From the same article, anyone know when we get the transcript as I would love to know what RB said about these two.

 

[Brogan]

This should be a good test of FOTA

 

[RickD]

Especially as they were so happy to help Brawn get on the grid..

 

[bogaTYR]

ah, novel way of finding out what the competion does no clear vison or understanding? just complain and make them show the darn thing in a court of law! complete with all the dimensions and everything.

 

[Speshal]

And Brawn's criticism of Ferrari consultant Rory Bryne and Red Bull technical guru Adrian Newey saw sparks fly in the courtroom, with the Englishman refusing to retract his statements.

From the same article, anyone know when we get the transcript as I would love to know what RB said about these two.

It was probably something along the lines of "I told you so, you massive dunces!

I said last March that there was a loophole regarding the duffusers and we should sort it out now and not when the new cars come out"

"Adrian, there was a loophole to be exploited - why did you not think of this when you designed your car (the only car on the grid) with push rod suspension meaning that the whole back end is compromised should the loophole not be closed"

"If I'm frank I didn't say 'look we are going to do this diffuser if you don't accept this rule' because I'm not going to tell people what we're doing, but I explained that I felt that we should have a different set of rules to simplify what needs to be done.

"I offered them and they were rejected, so my conscience is very clear. And those rules that I put on the table would have stopped a lot of things. It would have stopped the diffuser, it would have stopped all those bargeboards around the front, and it would have cleaned the cars up.

"Because it was clear that when we started to work on the regulations that there were things that you could do, and we needed to perhaps clean them up, but nobody was interested. They are interested now."

 

[sobriety]

Who do we reckon's going to have a new diffuser this weekend? I reckon McLaren or Renault may, and Ferrari have an aero update this weekend, but it's rumoured not to contain a diffuser upgrade...

 

[Brogan]

I'd put money on Renault and McLaren having new diffusers.

The rest are going to need another few weeks to get theirs sorted.
Apart from Red Bull who are going to have big problems incorporating a new design due to their rear suspension set up.

Only 2 more days and we find out

 

[sobriety]

Maybe i should trade webber from my fantasy f1 after china then!

 

[Brogan]

Maybe i should trade webber from my fantasy f1 after china then!

I already have