Dave Ryan suspended.

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
dave ryan has been with the team for what, 30 years? i cannot remember anything but him doing a fine job (GM knows more maybe?). so for him to leave the building like that seems pretty much like a scapegoat to me. i cannot imagine a loyal guy like dave ryan to suddenly become disloyal. and this makes me doubt mclaren even more.

and hats off to dave ryan who, in his usual loyal way, accepted this decision.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
So, boga, its alright for Dave Ryan to lie to the stewards but not Lewis Hamilton? McLaren have to show that they're cleaning up their act, and Ryan was the senior partner in that briefing. As Whitmarsh has said, they had no choice. Don't worry, he'll be back, he's only been suspended!

If this didn't happen then McLaren will look like they, as an organisation, accept lying to the FIA as a fait accompli, and if they want to preserve their place in the Championship (which they probably shouldn't) they can't do that!

Remember, it is likely to be Ryan's decision to con the stewards; Hamilton had told the media that he let Trulli past, before the stewards' meeting!
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
TBY

its not alright for anyone to lie to the stewards. i just have the feeling MW's comments are odd. here we have 2 people in front of the stewards, both of them being 'not entirely truthful' (the words of MW, not mine). from the stewards decision we know that the stewards asked LH a few questions.

and now Macca suspends Dave Ryan cos he was the eldest team member. its just odd cos this sounds like its fine to be 'not entrirely truthful' as long as there's a senior team member present. if it makes sense to you, then fine. i would love to be enlightened.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
In the words of Lewis himself....

The Englishman said sporting director Dave Ryan, who has been suspended after 35 years with McLaren, had instructed him to "withhold information".

"I'm not a liar or a dishonest person," said the 23-year-old on Friday.
World champion Hamilton also said the debacle was "definitely the worst thing I've experienced in my life".

He added: "I could not tell you how sorry I am for the embarrassment.
"I apologise to the race stewards for wasting their time and making them look silly."

From here: I am not a liar, insists Hamilton

What a stupid thing to do bearing in mind the data that was already in the public domain; i.e. the radio transcripts and interview.

Sometimes McLaren are their own worst enemy
 

Jen

Here be dragons.
Contributor
Another report from the world's favourite presenter - James Allen

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/


"I’m a team player and every time I’ve been informed to do something I’ve done it." - This is not entirely true either, Lewis seems to forget Hungary 2007!

Hopefully this one has been put to bed and we can now get on with the rest of the season.
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
thats the point that bothers me. on one hand saying i am a team player and then pointing at dave ryan. one moment yelling at your team and the next one doing exactly what your team tells you to do.

and thankfully i am not the only one who remembers hungary 2007. that was a true disgrace what happened there.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
In all life, the senior (not eldest, senior) figure in the organisation carries the can for the incident. Now there is no doubt that the whole incident suggests that to call Hamilton a halfwit would be unspeakably generous, and to not point out to your manager that you've just told the BBC something completely different is absolute madness. But from McLaren, the senior party present at the débacle would have to be Dave Ryan.

And I defy anyone to find me a driver who gave a toss who wouldn't yell at his team if he disagreed with them. I don't know if any arguments occured, but the fact of the matter is that this was not a decision they made off-the-cuff when they got into the Stewards' Room and would properly be punished by a 2-race ban for Hamilton, as I have already suggested.

McLaren had no choice but to suspend Ryan, if they are to shake off the image the FIA have of the whole team as cheats! Someone had to act and someone had to carry the can. The way F1 works, it is be far easier to suspend a behind-the-scenes virtually unknown team manager than Hamilton, who's tied up with sponsorship and with McLaren's British fanbase!

Often enough McLaren have been punished unfairly on the track, but this sustained bout of pillockry does them and the sport no good at all! The arguments in Hungary 2007, I would imagine, probably occur often enough anyway, when refering to drivers making judgements about the possiblities of things happening on track. I doubt anyone seriously is afraid to make a judgement and infuriate their team, except Felipe Massa! We saw who else was unafraid to make an autonomous decision on that day as well, remember.

Don't get me wrong boga, the whole bloody organisation is at fault. Remember how easily SpyGate could have been avoided (if they'd got a photocopier on premesis, for example...). However, life is such that someone had to be blamed, someone who isn't on posters for Mercedes, Tag Heuer, Vodafone, Santander...!
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
no probs TBY, i am off for a pint anyway so i am feeling particualrly lenient right now!

and if maclaren really wanted to do the right thing, then in my view MW would be out on the streets now. he's the big manitou there!
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
think MW wanted an epitaph which sounds more like:

"ron and me... between us we have 25 years and 1 month at maclaren"
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
(Jonathan Legard – BBC) Martin, what is the procedure or the process in terms of deciding what was going to be said? You were on the pit wall and so was Ron Dennis as much as Dave and anyone else. When this process was unfolding and you knew he had to go to the stewards what was done? What happens?
MW: In truth the situation was that during this incident we were asking the stewards, well, we were asking race control, for a decision because we realised that Trulli had been let past. We did not think that was right because in fact the original overtake of Trulli was entirely legitimate as Trulli was not on the circuit. We believed that when all of the facts were presented to the stewards that they would recognise and they would restore the positions, so we asked for the race control and the stewards to look into it and Dave and Lewis went to the stewards to give their account.

(Jonathan Legard - BBC) But did they talk to you about what should be said?
MW: No. They did not because it was not necessary. We knew what had happened and there was a belief that a true and honest account of that would get the result, that the positions would have been reversed.

(Jonathan Legard – BBC) So what got lost in translation? Lewis gave this interview or interviews saying ‘I was asked' and then said ‘no' in the stewards' inquiry. Why, why did that happen?
MW: Well, I think Lewis got out of the car and gave a truthful account of what happened. I believe that whilst they were at the stewards, Dave, who had been party to what had happened in Spa, was highly sensitive and I think in the heat of the moment, his judgment was to not give a true account, and I think Lewis was then led by that.
 

Jen

Here be dragons.
Contributor
Was it suggested to Dave Ryan (must be near retirement age now) that he should be the one to fall on his sword?

Of course, if one has to go it can't be Lewis as Dave has never driven the car! :snigger:
 
for those of you who missed the report on bbc news with dave ryan, the man with his back to camera was in fact none other than honest ron!!!

i dont believe for one minute that martin whitmarsh has completely taken over from ron, he's a puppet and ron has probably asked dave ryan to carry the can for his golden child, i'm sorry but all that springs to mind, is leopards and spots. i thought at the time when ron said he would act as an advisor to the team, that he wasnt really stepping down 100%. i totally agree with bernie on this one (did i just say that?)

just my opinion
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
I think some people are reading too much into it.

As MW said, Lewis already told the truth when he gave the TV interview after finishing the race.
It seems Dave Ryan took it upon himself for whatever reason to make a story up for the stewards - I suspect it was for fear of getting a penalty for letting Trulli past under safety car conditions.
Lewis unfortunately went along with it. Stupid yes but how many people would defy their boss?

I don't believe that Ron Dennis or Martin Whitmarsh were involved in this particular incident but no doubt others will think differently.
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
bro, please
this is about taking responsibility for one's own actions. LH threw dave on the sword! responsibility is a normal aspect of every great human being and LH has shown that is not what he is.
what did dave do? hold a gun against LH's head? threaten LH would be fired? or what, i mean, did dave even talk to LH?
LH is a big boy, last time i checked he is 24. what did his parents teach him? does he know right from wrong? thuth from lies? responsibility from throwing someone on the sword?

LH was a disgrace on friday afternoon, for F1 but mainly for himself. he was like a child after the window of the neighbours got broken. look! he made me do it. he didn't apologize at all. he just passed the buck. and for this he deserves FIA coming down on him real hard.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
bogaTYR said:
bro, please
this is about taking responsibility for one's own actions. LH threw dave on the sword! responsibility is a normal aspect of every great human being and LH has shown that is not what he is.
what did dave do? hold a gun against LH's head? threaten LH would be fired? or what, i mean, did dave even talk to LH?
LH is a big boy, last time i checked he is 24. what did his parents teach him? does he know right from wrong? thuth from lies? responsibility from throwing someone on the sword?

LH was a disgrace on friday afternoon, for F1 but mainly for himself. he was like a child after the window of the neighbours got broken. look! he made me do it. he didn't apologize at all. he just passed the buck. and for this he deserves FIA coming down on him real hard.

I suggest you read the FIA's latest comment as that puts a different light on it.

The FIA said "Lewis Hamilton was put in an impossible situation".
Note how they say Lewis Hamilton and not Dave Ryan or McLaren.

That to me suggests Dave Ryan was asked first in the stewards meeting and Lewis had no option but to go along with his answer or basically split with his team manager in front of the stewards.
The FIA in this instance seem to be absolving Lewis of any blame.

I don't expect you to believe that though as you obviously have your own reasons for believing Lewis is to blame for the whole issue.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Have you got a link Brogan? It would make sense if Dave Ryan had denied the thing first. If thats the case Hamilton could have done one of two things - 1 agreed with Ryan and hope to get away with it or 2 disagree with him and get thrown out anyway. If the FIA say Hamilton was in the right... well he must be!
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Here you go Teabag:

The FIA has hinted Hamilton could now be in the clear over the incident but warned that McLaren may face further sanction.

"We recognise Lewis's efforts to set the record straight," said an FIA spokesman. "It would appear he was put in an impossible position.

"We are now awaiting reports from the FIA observer and stewards before consideration can be given to further investigation of the team's conduct.

"We cannot rule out the matter being referred to the World Motor Sport Council."
From the BBC: I am not a liar, insists Hamilton

I'm not suggesting that Dave Rayn was asked first in the meeting but the FIA's latest comments seem to absolve Lewis of any particular blame so we can only infer from that what actually happened.

As is the case with most FIA related controversies though, we'll never really know the facts.
 
I completely agree with you, LH does have a mind of his own doesn't he? I feel very sorry indeed for dave, but hey this is McLaren!
bogaTYR said:
bro, please
this is about taking responsibility for one's own actions. LH threw dave on the sword! responsibility is a normal aspect of every great human being and LH has shown that is not what he is.
what did dave do? hold a gun against LH's head? threaten LH would be fired? or what, i mean, did dave even talk to LH?
LH is a big boy, last time i checked he is 24. what did his parents teach him? does he know right from wrong? thuth from lies? responsibility from throwing someone on the sword?

LH was a disgrace on friday afternoon, for F1 but mainly for himself. he was like a child after the window of the neighbours got broken. look! he made me do it. he didn't apologize at all. he just passed the buck. and for this he deserves FIA coming down on him real hard.
 
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