landogeorgelewis1
Champion Elect
Let's just say...moose and I won't be pleased
Oh bugger totally forgot about young Buemi. Of course he should have been in my list.
Autocourse Top 10 2011
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Oh bugger totally forgot about young Buemi. Of course he should have been in my list.
Personally I don't think he's driven as bad as some seem to think. Granted that compared to Vettel it doesn't look great, but he's still performed pretty well. Most of the other drivers people have listed have each had a fair few bad races, apart from Webber's retirement at Monza his lowest finish is 5th and he's had some great drives like Shanghai and Spa. Stats wise, behind Vettel he's qualified on the front row joint 2nd most times, joint 3rd in podium finishes and had the most fastest laps this season (7, compared to Vettel's 3).
Vettel's the favoured driver at Red Bull and the blown diffuser reportedly suited Vettel's driving style more than Webber's, which is why he was able to out-qualify Vettel when it was limited at Silverstone and arguably faster in the race.
I thought Webber's biggest problem this year was he just couldn't manage or get on with the new tyres,,,,,am I wrong about that?
1. Vettel - destroyed the field with his amazing consistency, his worst result being 4th, wrapping up the championship 4 races from the end.
2. Alonso - consistent with the results all the way through
3. Button - best season to date but Alonso edges it since Button was inconsistent in the first half of the season.
4. Hamilton - only because I can't think of anyone else to put 4th, 3 wins is good enough.
5. Schumacher - some may think why have I put him ahead of Rosberg, he's had more standout performances and has had more retirements that were no fault of his own compared to Rosberg.
6.Sutil - best of the rest really, came good at the end, and finishes ahead of all 3 Renault drivers.
7. Rosberg - anonymous season from him, looked as if he was a different Rosberg from last season.
8. Di Resta - most completed laps this season, for a rookie that's a great stat.
9. Buemi - really should have more points than he got, seemed to get most of the bad luck between both the Toro Rosso drivers.
10. Alguersuari/Kobayashi - one was consistent in the first half of the season the other inconsistent, second half of the season roles reversed.
Webber is not in my top 10 since he had the same equipment as Vettel, got to pick his own strategies unlike Massa who had to come in after Alonso in most grand prixs. Only won one race and that was somewhat gifted.
2. Alonso - consistent with the results all the way through
3. Button - best season to date but Alonso edges it since Button was inconsistent in the first half of the season.
4. Hamilton - only because I can't think of anyone else to put 4th, 3 wins is good enough.
5. Schumacher - some may think why have I put him ahead of Rosberg, he's had more standout performances and has had more retirements that were no fault of his own compared to Rosberg.
6.Sutil - best of the rest really, came good at the end, and finishes ahead of all 3 Renault drivers.
7. Rosberg - anonymous season from him, looked as if he was a different Rosberg from last season.
8. Di Resta - most completed laps this season, for a rookie that's a great stat.
9. Buemi - really should have more points than he got, seemed to get most of the bad luck between both the Toro Rosso drivers.
10. Alguersuari/Kobayashi - one was consistent in the first half of the season the other inconsistent, second half of the season roles reversed.
Webber is not in my top 10 since he had the same equipment as Vettel, got to pick his own strategies unlike Massa who had to come in after Alonso in most grand prixs. Only won one race and that was somewhat gifted.
Il_leone
World Champion
apparently one of the reasons and even more severe than Hamilton was he destroyed his tyres too quickly in race conditions and in quali he could not get them up to temperature like Vettel .
However by the time 2nd half of the season started he was closer to Seb instead of being 1 second down to less than 0.5 second per lap
with Helmut making noises that the young guns are not ready and Hamilton would a good addition to Red Bull.. really Webber is lucky he is still at Red Bull for 2012
I think I've said this before but Helmut hasn't been making those noises at all. In a recent interview he said that if Webber left after 2012 that one of the four young drivers(Ricciardio, Buemi, Alguersauri, Vergne) would replace him.
http://www.formula1blog.com/2011/12...minance-and-which-driver-will-replace-webber/
Il_leone
World Champion
But he also said none are ready yet. Also Helmut did praise Hamilton for winning in Abu Dhabi and earlier in the season on that he would fit in the Red Bull team
I heard Jeremy Clarkson praising Lewis recently but doesn't mean he's about to offer him a job presenting Top Gear.
I don't remember Helmut saying that none were ready yet - plus he's not actually putting one of them in the seat 'yet' - it wouldn't be until 2013 would it? giving them all another year.
I know what your saying re: Hamitlon and Red Bull and earlier this season I argued that they were an ideal partnership but that was before Sebastian Vettel became superman and Lewis became under a dark cloud man and would have to say I think you're reading what you want to see in the statements you're quoting.
me I'll go with the direct quote of him saying one of them will replace Webber for now.
I don't remember Helmut saying that none were ready yet - plus he's not actually putting one of them in the seat 'yet' - it wouldn't be until 2013 would it? giving them all another year.
I know what your saying re: Hamitlon and Red Bull and earlier this season I argued that they were an ideal partnership but that was before Sebastian Vettel became superman and Lewis became under a dark cloud man and would have to say I think you're reading what you want to see in the statements you're quoting.
me I'll go with the direct quote of him saying one of them will replace Webber for now.
1) Vettel Doesn't need much explanation really
2) Button The only driver to consistently challenge Vettel and the only driver who forced him into a mistake (Canada). No-ones questioning his logic to go to McLaren now are they
3) Alonso Dragged that Ferrari around kicking and screaming to places it should never have been, 4th in the Championship and just behind Webber and Button is not a bad return considering the machinery they had available
4) Webber Statistically he didn't have a bad season, but compare it to Vettel and the picture becomes clear
5) Hamilton We saw the best and worst of Hamilton this season, 3 brilliant wins counterbalance some awful races and incidents, is it coz he's black? Well a certain Ferrari didn't help his mood either
6) Schumacher One of the most improved drivers of the year, 4th in Canada showed he still had it and ran 2nd at a time until DRS helped Webber and Button past. A lot closer to Rosberg this season and given half a chance he can still rub it up at the front.
7) Rosberg Beat his team-mate but not as convincingly as 2010, podium and that first victory continues to be elusive
8) Alguesuari Everyone thought he would be out of the team after Valencia, but a brilliant run of form saved his career and he even beat his team mate by 11 points and just finished behind Di Resta and Kobyashi
9) Sutil Poor to begin with, but once the Renaults faded away he showed that he's still a talented racer and outclassed Di Resta to be best of the rest behind the front 4 cars
10) Kovalainen Driving a lot better than his Mclaren days but with no reward, despite a lack of Kers and a slower car he was till mixing it with the midfield and even beating Renault and Williams at times on pure pace, far faster than Trulli
2) Button The only driver to consistently challenge Vettel and the only driver who forced him into a mistake (Canada). No-ones questioning his logic to go to McLaren now are they
3) Alonso Dragged that Ferrari around kicking and screaming to places it should never have been, 4th in the Championship and just behind Webber and Button is not a bad return considering the machinery they had available
4) Webber Statistically he didn't have a bad season, but compare it to Vettel and the picture becomes clear
5) Hamilton We saw the best and worst of Hamilton this season, 3 brilliant wins counterbalance some awful races and incidents, is it coz he's black? Well a certain Ferrari didn't help his mood either
6) Schumacher One of the most improved drivers of the year, 4th in Canada showed he still had it and ran 2nd at a time until DRS helped Webber and Button past. A lot closer to Rosberg this season and given half a chance he can still rub it up at the front.
7) Rosberg Beat his team-mate but not as convincingly as 2010, podium and that first victory continues to be elusive
8) Alguesuari Everyone thought he would be out of the team after Valencia, but a brilliant run of form saved his career and he even beat his team mate by 11 points and just finished behind Di Resta and Kobyashi
9) Sutil Poor to begin with, but once the Renaults faded away he showed that he's still a talented racer and outclassed Di Resta to be best of the rest behind the front 4 cars
10) Kovalainen Driving a lot better than his Mclaren days but with no reward, despite a lack of Kers and a slower car he was till mixing it with the midfield and even beating Renault and Williams at times on pure pace, far faster than Trulli
Il_leone
World Champion
Yes but everyone knows Helmut is like the dark Lord of Red Bull with his own agenda to have the young drivers drive for Red Bull and is not on Webber's Christmas card list
He rarely praises any other driver apart from Vettel
Jeremy Clarkson rarely praises anyone either but I'm still not betting on Lewis being a presenter of Top Gear
Il_leone
World Champion
Difference is Helmut has an influence on who drives for Red Bull and has been trying to oust Webber
Obviously hasn't been trying that hard...
When has he been trying to oust Webber? If he can't oust him after Mark's awful year this season then he obviously doesn;t have a lot of influence does he?
Sorry we've gone wildly off topic. Apologies guys
The Rasputin_Lives Top 10 is as follows.
1 - Sebastian Vettel - who else? Best Car maybe but devestated the opposition
2 - Jenson Button - Really stepped up a gear this year
3 - Fernando Alonso - Best form since 06 - gets most improved attitude award too
4 - Adrian Sutil - Why? like Fernando, Adrian is one of 3 drivers who have out performed their teams place in the constructors championship and that gets overlooked - who's the 3rd? well.......
5 - Kamui Kobayashi - His great run at the start of the season has been forgotten due to a failing Sauber and his crash with Lewis. Pulled off 7 points scoring finishes in a row(one DQ'd) at begining of the year including a brilliant drive in Monoco. Dipped like the team in the middle but was the guy scoring the points to make sure Sauber fended off Toro Rosso in the last 2 races. Had over double the points of his team-mate
6 - Lewis Hamilton - I feel bad putting a driver who can produce performances like China, Germany and Abu Dhabi so low in the ratings but I guess he has to be judged by his own high standards and Lewis has been off form this year
7 - Jamie Alguersauri - Wouldn't have thought I'd have been putting Jamie in this table a few races into the season but the squire came good, saved his career and I think put himself in contention for the Red Bull seat if he carries on like this next season
8 - Nico Rosberg - we all know I'm not a fan as I find him dull - apart from Spa he's done nothing spectaculor this year really but he is consistant and consistantly on the tail of those front runners so he gets my number 8 slot and a begrudging well done
9 - Heikki Kovalaninen - The little Finnish fella who Lewis made into a laughing stock has transformed himself into hot property by the end of this year and has teams chasing him. Has been the only driver of the new teams to even look like getting out of Q1 - has done for Caterham exactly what Virgin wanted Glock to do for them.
10 - Jerome D'ambrosio - WHAT!!?!?! I hear you cry - well I've given poor old Jermoe the number 10 slot because the guy massively out performed any expectation of him. Never been highly rated in his junior career and was suppose to be the pay flunky to the greatness that is supposedly Timo Glock. Hasn;t worked out like that. He's always been on Timo's tail in quali if not in front of him(execeptionaly impressive in Japan quali) when all the tracks have been new to him and scored Virgin's highest finish 14th(x2). Just a shame no one noticed him.
Sorry we've gone wildly off topic. Apologies guys
The Rasputin_Lives Top 10 is as follows.
1 - Sebastian Vettel - who else? Best Car maybe but devestated the opposition
2 - Jenson Button - Really stepped up a gear this year
3 - Fernando Alonso - Best form since 06 - gets most improved attitude award too
4 - Adrian Sutil - Why? like Fernando, Adrian is one of 3 drivers who have out performed their teams place in the constructors championship and that gets overlooked - who's the 3rd? well.......
5 - Kamui Kobayashi - His great run at the start of the season has been forgotten due to a failing Sauber and his crash with Lewis. Pulled off 7 points scoring finishes in a row(one DQ'd) at begining of the year including a brilliant drive in Monoco. Dipped like the team in the middle but was the guy scoring the points to make sure Sauber fended off Toro Rosso in the last 2 races. Had over double the points of his team-mate
6 - Lewis Hamilton - I feel bad putting a driver who can produce performances like China, Germany and Abu Dhabi so low in the ratings but I guess he has to be judged by his own high standards and Lewis has been off form this year
7 - Jamie Alguersauri - Wouldn't have thought I'd have been putting Jamie in this table a few races into the season but the squire came good, saved his career and I think put himself in contention for the Red Bull seat if he carries on like this next season
8 - Nico Rosberg - we all know I'm not a fan as I find him dull - apart from Spa he's done nothing spectaculor this year really but he is consistant and consistantly on the tail of those front runners so he gets my number 8 slot and a begrudging well done
9 - Heikki Kovalaninen - The little Finnish fella who Lewis made into a laughing stock has transformed himself into hot property by the end of this year and has teams chasing him. Has been the only driver of the new teams to even look like getting out of Q1 - has done for Caterham exactly what Virgin wanted Glock to do for them.
10 - Jerome D'ambrosio - WHAT!!?!?! I hear you cry - well I've given poor old Jermoe the number 10 slot because the guy massively out performed any expectation of him. Never been highly rated in his junior career and was suppose to be the pay flunky to the greatness that is supposedly Timo Glock. Hasn;t worked out like that. He's always been on Timo's tail in quali if not in front of him(execeptionaly impressive in Japan quali) when all the tracks have been new to him and scored Virgin's highest finish 14th(x2). Just a shame no one noticed him.
Il_leone
World Champion
well because his young guns were not good enough or ready and Hamilton is not available yet !
Il_leone
World Champion
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Hmm no Di Resta , Schumacher but Alguersuari that high
Kobayashi I thought was a disappointment compared to last year and went missing 2nd half of the season somewhat .... then again the fabled Sauber 1 stop strategy was not always going to work
There is no love lost between Helmut and Webber..from the moment he butted in about the Turkey incident last year when it was none of his business and strangely Horner changed his tune when Helmut spoke and blamed Webber after initially blaming Vettel !
Even the front wing row saying the team treated their drivers equally.
You don't endorse another driver saying he would be a good fit for Red Bull unless you're putting pressure on the current drivers to perform
although not as obvious as Flavio does it
Incubus
Champion Elect
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And yet he'd been "trying to oust Webber"?
I think you see what you want to see on the Red Bull front. I'll just go with what I can quote for now.
Alonso said Lewis was great - is he about to sign for Ferrari? No. Their are lots of reason to endorse a driver.
Both Schumacher and Di Resta got done by their team-mates who are in the top ten and Alguersauri finished a point behind Di Resta in a car that was supposedly 2 places back from the Force India in the constructors so he ranks higher for me
Alonso said Lewis was great - is he about to sign for Ferrari? No. Their are lots of reason to endorse a driver.
Both Schumacher and Di Resta got done by their team-mates who are in the top ten and Alguersauri finished a point behind Di Resta in a car that was supposedly 2 places back from the Force India in the constructors so he ranks higher for me
Meh, I don't think we'll ever see Vettel and Hamilton at Red Bull. Vettel wouldn't have it and Horner doesn't need to the headache that 2 truly competitive drivers would bring. I can easily see Webber doing one more year if RB don't have someone they think can be reasonably competitive (although not cause an issue with Vettel for the WDC) and just as importantly won't break the car, to help with the WCC.
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