Account Upgrades

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Unfortunately it looks like the automated account upgrades will have to end after tomorrow.

Thanks to an insane change in the EU VAT laws, digital sales such as that require the seller to be VAT registered and charge VAT to the originating country, regardless of whether the total sales meets the VAT threshold or not.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ment_data/file/390300/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart.pdf

This means that SMEs in the UK will have to charge and account for VAT in the member state where the digital services are sold – that is 75 different VAT rates in 28 different countries. For example, if a business sells a music streaming service to customers all over Europe, one of whom is in France and the other in the Netherlands, it will have to charge and account for VAT at the relevant rate for each country.

http://www.theguardian.com/small-business-network/2014/dec/08/new-vat-regulations-affect-smes

For the amount of money the account upgrades generate, it's just not worth it.

I'm not yet sure how that's going to affect access to the overtaking data as that is one of the methods for accessing it.

Well done the UK government and the EU.

****ing retarded twats!
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
2 questions.

Do I need to do anything to cancel the payment or will that happen automatically?

And

Will the annual payment (manual) option be going as well? I take it that is the case?

Once again, stupid red tape rules bugger everyone up.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Once I decide how to deal with it, I'll get in touch with everyone who has a recurring upgrade and let them know if they need to do anything.

I have known about it for a while but I was hoping common sense would prevail at the last minute.
Stupid of me, I know.
 

Titch

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
Are you saying that a contributor can no longer upgrade ? You are, aren't you. I was going to go orange in the New year.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Despite repeated claims that they would, our government has done sweet fa to clamp down on big buisness tax avoidance and so the EU measures are a double kick in the nuts.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
There is no way around it. You are selling a service to Europe (among other countries) so that's that. The only option you may have is to ensure you only sell upgrades to UK residents only. You are then covered under existing VAT regulations. All it would take though is for one person to purchase an upgrade from outside the UK without you knowing and you could be done by that host country for tax avoidance. Not worth it I would suggest. :(
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Well it is very poorly implemented.
For example, when people contact me to buy my add-on, they make a manual payment via PayPal and then I email them the add-on files.
That isn't covered by the new legislation (apparently).

But (semi) automated services are.

So in theory, it could be made a completely manual process whereby people make a 'donation' to the site and then I compensate them by manually upgrading their account.

It really shouldn't be necessary to do that though.
It's such a ****ing poorly implemented piece of legislation.
 

Mephistopheles

Banned
Contributor
Can't you just change the name from subscription to donation after if I choose to make a donation then surely that is a gift from me to you, you are not selling me anything so should not come under these new VAT rules....
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
It's not the name as such, it's the fact that it's automated.

Currently when someone purchases an upgrade, after paying via PayPal, the upgrade is applied automatically by the software, based on a callback from the PP server.
I don't have to do anything at all.

From what I understand, to avoid having to register for VAT, apply for a MOSS, file quarterly returns and keep records for 10 years, I would have to do everything manually.
Even then, I'm sure a tweak of the current rules would soon counter that.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
This is how crazy it is.

services.png


A .pdf document sent in an automatic email is covered.

A .pdf document sent in a manual email isn't covered.

A link to a .pdf document sent in a manual email is covered.
 

F1Yorkshire

Avatar for sale to the highest bidder
Contributor
I'm also wanting to upgrade, brown paper envelopes it is then!

Are you sure the site access actually comes under the rules? Is it technically a link to online content? We're not downloading anything, it's just a contribution to the upkeep of the site. The content can be accessed for free so it's not a premium service like a video blog or even a website like Autosport who use a paywall
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Are you sure the site access actually comes under the rules? Is it technically a link to online content?
Honestly, I don't really know.
It's clear as mud and trying to get clarification on it is as easy as getting a politician to truthfully declare their receipts.

This though probably applies to the overtaking data:

Link to online content or download sent by manual e-mail
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
No, that's the whole point of this change.
There is no VAT threshold for services covered by these new rules.

Having read a bit more though, I believe we may be OK as based on their own wording, it specifically states that:
Link to online content or download sent by manual e-mail

User upgrades don't involve an email sent by the site.
The software just automatically upgrades the account.

So that being the case, I'm just going to ignore this ridiculous bit of legislation.

As you were :D
 
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