Grand Prix 2018 Japanese Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

F1Brits_90

Race Winner
Utter domination from Lewis Hamilton won every session & title is all but sown up now if it wasnt before as a Lewis win & merc 1-2 its officially all over. What was Vettel thinking spoon 2 yes spoon 1 never. I thought with the 1st few laps here we go. He's on it but then mr desperate came along & since the stupid move at monza on lewis. His title battle has unravelled rapidly for 2nd consecutive year. But then i always know vettel weakness is pressure problem between 2011 & 2013 it was hard to get him under pressure

Bottas has proved everyone point who was criticial, so hopefully some people including himself all stop bottas sympathy, he was average again if anything id say below average, never got close to lewis & considering performance gap between Mercedes & Red Bull. Then add on max 5 second penalty + floor damage. For bottas to be under pressure from max for last 20laps only finish 1.3secs ahead is shocking display.
 

F1Brits_90

Race Winner
Just thinking what amazes me is the speed of ferrari. Cant forget that its only a month ago ferrari had a front row lockout at monza & vettel were for me the favourite to win a 5th world title. Then that move & they know need a minor miracle tk take to mexico nevermind win it
 

Titch

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
Watching the Sky rerun at 11.05 am.

PDR commentary ..... “we’ve saw that before “ surely commentators should be able to string words together in a grammatically correct fashion? Absolute rubbish.

Yours Mrs. Grumpy
 

Titch

Champion Elect
Premium Contributor
Well Verstappen certainly stopped the race from being predictable.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Watching the Sky rerun at 11.05 am.

PDR commentary ..... “we’ve saw that before “ surely commentators should be able to string words together in a grammatically correct fashion? Absolute rubbish.

Yours Mrs. Grumpy
I was grumbling when Croft was talking about "complicit overtakes". Then laughed my head off later when he said "another compliant overtake". Evidently the producer or someone at Sky speaks English - maybe give them the mic? Could not be any worse.
 

F1Brits_90

Race Winner
Galahad according to ted notebook producers had its hands full with abitboul. As normally they go to the pitwall. But producer asked if it was ok & what abitboul replied with wasnt repeatable appartantly so they didnt

Using creative license maybe the convosation went something like "of course not :censored: hulkenburg just retired & sainz is 14th. Race is :censored: disaster. I got enough on my :censored: plate, So no i dont want to :censored: talk" LOLLOL
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
it is alleged that since there has been greater checks on the oil burning process , the Ferrari might have lost power and performance from an area where it previously was the top

F1Brits_90 Seb's never been really good at overtaking under real pressure or even handling . The two titles in 2011 and 2013 - his car was superior to the rest of the field and most of the the time he disappeared into the distance from first corner on lap 1 and never troubled

2010 - some of his mistakes were clumsy like in 2017 and 2018 and he actually won the title under the nose because Red Bull messed up his teammates strategy and Ferrari messed up Alonso's

2012 - he had a great run when the car was dominant in Asia but did not actually overtake anyone . The next race Abu Dhabi was probably his most flukiest race - sent to the back of the grid because of illegal fuel, he brushed the wall and ran into Ricciardo and lucky for him it happened during a safety car as he managed to get his wing replaced with little time lost. I remember he was annoyed Ricciardo was not going fast enough and caught him napphing and he still managed to finish 3rd as Hamilton retired

Then the last race he spun on first lap and could have easily been out of the race but survived to finish a nervy 6th

He's never had to chase down someone hard and forced to be a real racer. Typically he blames Verstappen for the move but that corner is not a place you want to overtake and lose a nose
 
He's never had to chase down someone hard and forced to be a real racer. Typically he blames Verstappen for the move but that corner is not a place you want to overtake and lose a nose
the problem is that he didn't have many other choices, he saw a gap and went for it, sadly for him it didn't work out but with hindsight it's easy. The point is that his car didn't have enough speed to get close to Verstappen's when it mattared, Vettel knew that for him coming home 3rd or 4th was meaningless and so he tried. I don't think that he wasted his last chance of becoming WDC, IMHO he had already lost any reasonable chance. IMHO he made a much bigger mistake at Monza.

BTW I also think that had Verstappen tried such a move on Vettel then Vettel would have been punished for closing the door when the other car had already commited to the corner (personally I'd call this a racing incident)
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Publius Cornelius Scipio Monza was a big error his mind totally scrambled

Here desperate somewhat but that such a difficult corner to overtake if you are not side and Vettel has coming from a long way back

After today's race I would be not surprised if Vettel is onto his manager to get onto Toto Wolff and try get himself a Mercedes seat for 2020 because he must be losing faith in his Ferrari team or they just don;t rally behind him
 
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F1Brits_90

Race Winner
Il_leone 2010 he never had pressure as he was so far back. I remember in brazil talk of red bull team orders but vettel kept 1st & webber trying to win the korean gp instead of settling for comfortabld 2nd & cost him the title but abu Dhabi didnt help

Vettel in 2020 could happen i posted this a month ago. Another collaspe or not challenge & it cpuld happen

Also saw this on twitter & i can really see this happening. As i can 2007 saga all over again
View attachment 12087
 

Izumi

Points Scorer
In 2016 actually there was an inverse situation with Verstappen and Vettel. Almost carbon copy what happened today. Seb got blasted all over by "experts" for ensuing collision due to his allegedly "clumsy" defense, whereas wonder-boy got all the praise for his "gutsy" (kamikaze) move.

Not so today.

These days as soon as there is some commotion on the track, it seems automatically Vettel will be at fault, and if it is not his fault, then he will get accused of making an "error".

A lot of toxicity on the internet, paddock and in media. Facts, context and fairness are not needed. After race second guessing drivers is a flavor of the day (as it always was).
 
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cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
I don't care who Mark Hughes is because Arrivabene has confirmed there is second sensor.
tami. on Twitter
Mark Hughes is a respected F1 journalist but I'm sure you knew that.

The big question is, if there was a new sensor fitted to the Ferraris, why would Charlie Whiting refute the story and tell the press that no such sensor was fitted. That makes no sense.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Clay cider_and_toast Whether the 2nd sensor is fitted or not to monitor how the oil burning is giving them significant boost of power . Ferrari do not seem to show the same kind of dominance now but putting that aside they've had plenty of chances to get their act together and get track position for Vettel when it mattered.

That team is in a state of flux

Today was a sign they surrendered the chase not letting Vettel past Raikkonen unless they think Kimi did not care
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Someone wrote on twitter the other day

" Hamilton is not in Vettel's league " well that is because he is performing at another level

Planet F1 rated

Hamilton 10
Bottas 6.5 - poor drive to be pressured by Red Bull
Verstappen 8,5 - for fighting to the end to get 2nd place
Vettel - 5 ! What should have been a recovery drive was ruined by an unnecessary do or die approach that cost him a heap of points again
 

F1Brits_90

Race Winner
Izumi which one was it, was that Mexico. But even then we are talking about in 2016 a guy in 2nd season v 4x world champion in his 9th

Today there was just no planning, relistened to his interview if he thought he had a battery/power advantange. Why in spoon 1 didnt he take the wide entry & undercut him get the better drive out of spoon 1 & inside line of spoon 2

Screenshot_20181007-215817.jpg
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
You just can't overtake at spoon curve the way the corner closes in the other guy has to see you coming and back out. Where Vettel spun a few years ago that was pure gravel so he would have beached himself and lost even more points

If anyone can find me some decent overtakes at spoon then please post
 
Here desperate somewhat but that such a difficult corner to overtake if you are not side and Vettel has coming from a long way back
the problem is that Vettel WAS alongside Verstappen, only Vettel had a WDC to lose whereas Verstappen had nothing to lose, So Verstappen went for him (and got away with it).

I think that with respect to Vettel's recent crashes there is one issue that should be discussed: why it is always Vettel who spins and comes off the worse? I think that both yesterday as well as in Monza in a similar accident is the guy on the outside who suffers the most yet Vettel managed to spin both times and he even damaged his car. IMHO the problem is Vettel trying to avoid contact at the last second (when it's too late...), he looks like a driver on the backfoot, it looks as if he doesn't really believe that he can fully race the other guys. Why that is the case I don't know, whether it's because he knows that the stewards are eagerly waiting for an excuse to punish him or whether he doesn't fully believe in his chances I don't know, but to me it looks as if Vettel gets into every dice fully knowing that he's not going to have the upper hand
 
You just can't overtake at spoon curve the way the corner closes in the other guy has to see you coming and back out. Where Vettel spun a few years ago that was pure gravel so he would have beached himself and lost even more points

If anyone can find me some decent overtakes at spoon then please post
Verstappen was way off the racing line, if a driver doesn't try in such a situation then he should consider a different sport. Motorsport is full of fantastic moves in some unexpcted places, Vettel had to try (and IMHO he had to muscle his way through). Do you think that Verstappen would have closed in such a way a driver like Mansell or Senna or Alonso? no way, he would have been "slightly" more careful. That is Vettel's problem, not the fact that he saw a gap and went for it, Verstappen has been playing games with Vettel for years because he perfectly knows that he can get away with it
 

Clay

Test Driver
Mark Hughes is a respected F1 journalist but I'm sure you knew that.

The big question is, if there was a new sensor fitted to the Ferraris, why would Charlie Whiting refute the story and tell the press that no such sensor was fitted. That makes no sense.
Did he really speak to Whiting? We have Arrivabene in front of the camera stating there is a second sensor and also worrying why it has suddenly been revealed to the public.
 
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