Grand Prix 2013 Hungarian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion


The Hungaroring is a funny place in the history of F1. Starting life with the mid-80's claim of being the first race from behind the now long gone iron curtain, it should by rights, have long since disappeared from the calendar to have been replaced by a Tilkedrome in some far off and distant corner of the world.

The tight, twisty track that sees little racing all year round and remains relatively dusty and dirty all weekend is often claimed to be a place where few can overtake and not much happens. A quick thumb through F1's history pages can soon dispel this myth. From the first race held in 1986 which gave us the four wheel power slide overtake by Nelson Piquet on Senna, as shown above, to Mansell's first victory for Ferrari coming from 12th place to win. Via Mansell confirming his world title here in 1992 right up to maiden wins for Damon Hill, Fernando Alonso, Jenson Button and Heikki Kovalainen this track is never short of a surprise or two.

It seems like an agonizing 3 week wait before we get to the track and of course in that time we have the young drivers tyre test and the latest changes to the tyre range for the remainder of the season. Perhaps, due to the tight and twisty nature of the track, out right speed is less of an issue here and so the cars tend to find themselves on a much leveler playing field.

The Red Bull's will be going into the race a lot more confident about where they are in relation to the tyres and knowing that the car is well balanced and definitely the one to beat at the moment. As for Mercedes, Ferrari and Lotus(Renault) nipping away at their heels, for Mercedes this race marks a vital moment in their season. Denied the chance to test at Silverstone they will have the least amount of information regarding the new 2012 structure / 2013 compound tyres. Already proven to be one of the fastest cars on the grid they seem to suffer tyre degradation a lot more than their nearest rivals. All hopes will be for a repeat of their performance at Monaco, another tight and twisty track, and that they can get on top of the tyre data given only 3 hours of running on the dusty surface at Friday practice. For Ferrari it seems that tyre wear is less important than finding a bit more pace in the car. While Alonso really pushed hard in the last few laps of the German GP, overall the weekend looked like something of a backward step for Maranello resulting in different strategies coming in to play. Finally, if only Lotus(Renault) could find some sort of consistency to capitalize on the abilities of Kimi (and Romain if he can keep it on the black stuff) they to could be troubling the front runners all weekend.

Battle has been joined in the midfield by a suddenly motivated Toro Rosso pair who sniff a race seat at their Big Brothers team. Rumors continue to surround where either driver may end up if anywhere at all so it is vital they keep the pressure on. Force India were strangely off the pace in Germany and will be looking to restore that advantage and increase their gap over McLaren in the constructors championship while they can. Meanwhile the boys at woking will have been encouraged by their showing at the Nurburgring but will it be enough to build on and at last turn around what after Hungary could be their worst season in the long history of the team?

Another team showing a slight improvement on their recent performances is Sauber who will have been pleased with the way they ran in Germany. Rumors of financial issues at the team including the non-payment of wages to Nico Hulkenburg show they could be heading for troubled times if results don't start to improve. Nico's name is now being spoken off in relation to a couple of drives elsewhere next season and his opportunities to live up to his talent hang in the balance unless Sauber can show the same pace they had last season soon.

Williams are officially having their poorest ever season. Just missing the points with three 11th place finishes can't hide the fact that they are squabbling for the crumbs off the table. It's clear that there are too many things wrong with the car to point the blame in any one direction but who would have thought that after 9 races there would not be a single point in the bank. It must be worrying for the whole team and you tend to wonder how long it will be before the last sparks of their reputation burn out?

And so finally we come to the back of the grid, it's clear that both the "young teams" as they are described on Sky F1 have taken a huge step backwards. You only have to look at the ever growing spaces on the Marussia to know that sponsorship is an issue (as it also appears to be for Sauber and Williams to some extent) and I would place a small bet now that which ever of these two teams fails to gain Bernie's hand out for 10th at the end of the season will be sold quickly or more likely as in the case of HRT last season, will be pulling down its pit shutters for the final time.

So, while we have three weeks to wait, there is still plenty to talk about in the run up to the Hungarian GP. Who can put more pressure on Vettel ? Will Mercedes performance suffer as a result of missing out on the young drivers tyre test ? Can Ferrari regain their early season pace ? Questions, Questions. (And a long time until we find those answers).
 
It'll be interesting to see what happens if Grosjean gets in front of Vettel. It looked at the Nurburgring like Lotus were stymied by Vettel's defensive abilities, despite being quicker.

With the heat, the surprisingly excellent qualifying performance and the slow pitlane Lotus could be in a great position depending on RoGro's start.
 
At least now people can stop banging on about Merc not being allowed into the YDT as they have obviously not been disadvantaged in the slightest as some said they would be, In fact the biggest losers as far as I can make out (So far.) from the new tyres are Force India, or it may be just this track....
 
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Right, we can have the fun of seeing exactly what'll happen down to turn one.

Options:
  1. Grosjean gets ahead of Vettel. :cheer:C'est magnifique!
  2. Grosjean crashes into Vettel. This has the effect of reducing a load of Championship gaps. Including Kimi's. ;)
  3. Grosjean gets ahead of Hamilton and Vettel. C'est magnifique grand!:cheer:
  4. Grosjean crashes into Hamilton. This leaves Vettel clear. :facepalm:
  5. Grosjean stays where he is. Happy Seb. :o
  6. Grosjean crashes into Alonso. Even happier Seb. :1st:
  7. Grosjean slides on a trail of liquid left after John Button's birthday party. :birthday: Bonesy is delighted!
Option 8. Grosjean takes out the first twelve cars Jenson wins, happy me....:)
 
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Option 9. Grosjean takes out half the field on the first lap and the rest on lap two. No result for histories shortest GP as Grosjean is disqualified 'cause his car has no wheels when he crosses the finish line. ROFL
 
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At least now people can stop banging on about Merc not being allowed into the YDT as they have obviously not been disadvantaged in the slightest as some said they would be, In fact the biggest losers as far as I can make out (So far.) from the new tyres are Force India, or it may be just this track....
Personally, I've not been one to bang on about the YDT ban, as I always thought it was a pretty fair penalty for the misdemeanor. But I don't see how you can say they haven't been disadvantaged by it after qualifying, when Mercedes have been fast all season, and at a circuit where Hamilton has always performed well. If they do better on tyre degradation over the course of the race than they have been doing, then you may have a point. At the moment I still can't see them doing anything but going backwards during the race, although I hope I'm wrong.

I agree about Force India though, but I can't remember whether the Hungaroring is normally a good or bad circuit for them.
 
Having to watch coverage on German TV today so no idea what the comentators are saying but I am sure I saw vettel and Grosjean both take all 4 wheels over the white lines when doing ovdertakes......whats the penalty if they are indeed guilty?
 
Ahh hah - question answered a drive through for Grosjean..... but what about Vettel????? I thought it was lap 19 he did it when being chased hard by grosjean...any of you have the facility to review the lap?
 
Grosjean should have had at least 2nd in the bag today and possibly a win. However, he ballsed it up, finished 6th and is the type of race that continues to pile pressure on him. He has no-one to blame but himself.

Great win by Hamilton, about time he had some luck. And Kimi fighting off Vettel for 2nd! :)
 
Hamilton win takes the pressure off him somewhat as he has finally taken a top step for Mercedes

That win puts him equal with Damon Hill on the most wins record

It might galvanise Hamilton further more

the person I think is starting to get worried is Alonso again - lost more ground on Vettel and it appears Raikkonen is driving the 2nd fastest car race pace wise
 
Grosjean should have had at least 2nd in the bag today and possibly a win. However, he ballsed it up, finished 6th and is the type of race that continues to pile pressure on him. He has no-one to blame but himself.

It's a shame as he's an entertaining driver to watch. He just pushes it too far. Maybe he'd just be a mediochre driver if he didn't try and go for gaps that don't exist .
 
Grosjean will get a lot of criticism for this race I'm sure but I really think he did a lot more right today than he did wrong. The contact with Button was a shame but the Massa overtake was spectacular even if he ended up just off the circuit (though perhaps you could make the argument that Massa didn't give him space to stay on the circuit). He was also aggressive but fair on the first lap. There's definitely a fast driver inside Romain and I think he will continue to emerge as the season goes on. I just hope the penalty today doesn't knock his confidence like what seemed to happen in the second half of 2012.

Hamilton won this race by quickly passing Button and Webber after his pit stops. The straight line speed of the Mercedes helped but Vettel and Grosjean were unable to get past Button for a long, long time. You could definitely argue that Red Bull had both a better qualifying and race car than Mercedes this weekend as well, which makes Hamilton's performance this weekend look even more impressive.

Webber, Raikkonen and Button all did well to make alternative strategies work after struggling on Saturday and despite being overshadowed by Bottas somewhat so far this season it's Maldonado that picks up the first points of the season for Williams.

On the other side of the coin you have Ferrari and Force India. Ferrari just seem to fall a little bit further behind Red Bull, Mercedes and Lotus at every race and unless they can find something over the summer break Alonso's championship hopes are in tatters. Force India seem to have been hurt the most by the changes made to the tyres and Di Resta, for whatever reason, just seems unable to have a clean weekend. McLaren have made a step forward and chances are they will move ahead of Force India in the constructors championship within the next race or two.

Finally, Ricciardo just doesn't seem to be able to keep the Toro Rosso in the top 10 on Sundays and the Caterham drivers seemed to try their best to get in the way... again.

The teams now have a month to take stock... and we have a month to figure out what normal people do with their weekends. I think today still leaves a glimmer of hope that Red Bull/Vettel won't have it all their own way this year but they still have a very healthy advantage and probably the best overall car.
 
For me the highlight was Williams finally getting its first point of the season. Long overdue.
Thought Button was a bit of a mobile chicane, but he isn't paid to move over for anyone.

Felt that ROGRo's penalty was a bit harsh and smacked a little of being awarded because he violated one of the cardinal rules of F1 "Thou shalt not pass a Ferrari".
 
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I agree that the penalty for overtaking Massa was harsh as it was an excellent move, just too bad he couldn't quite keep it on the track. Think Vettel on Button at Hockenheim a couple of years ago even if it was more obvious. Thought he should have been punished for causing a collision with Button instead which would have made more sense.
 
Via WTF1

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