Grand Prix 2011 Singapore Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Getting closer and closer

Every time we say that Vettel won't win, he comes up trumps with a flawless performance and Monza was no different, taking pole, won the race and put a smart move on Alonso which won him the race.

Ferrari have pretty much admitted defeat and are stopping development on their frankly dissapointing 2011 car which so far has only taken one win at the rain affected British Grand Prix which was also the only track where the EBD was banned which was negatively affecting McLaren and Red Bull more than it was Ferrari. It means that Fernando Alonso will have gone 5 years without adding to his 2 world championships which he took at Renault in 2005 and 2006 and he will be more determined than ever to fix that soon. Felipe Massa looks to be just going through the motions and is a shadow of his pre 2009 self.

Jenson Button continued his strong second half of the season with a podium at Monza to further assert himself as the number one driver at McLaren, indeed his performances recently have been putting his team mate in the shade and a series of overtakes in Spa and Monza have showed that he has the mantle to be the leading driver at McLaren.

In contrast Lewis Hamilton has been somewhat troubled recently, after a crash in Spa, a spin in Hungary and just 1 podium in 8 races, he was notably less agressive in Monza, particularly when trying to overtake Schumacher who arguably should have been penalised for agressive defending which other drivers have been penalised for recently.

Apart from over agressive defending Schumacher has been driving a lot better recently and has been up at the front on a more consistent basis and surely he must be close to a podium now? Rosberg has been very unlucky recently, a good strategy in Monza was ruined when he was t-boned by the missile that was Liuzzi who was given a penalty for his spin, he claimed that he was pushed off by Kovalainen but this wasn't true and the stewards took a dim view of him.

Toro Rosso have enjoyed a very strong second half to the year with another double points finish in Monza with Alguesari continuing his Lazarus act from near expulsion to take his season total to 16, 3 ahead of his team mate Buemi who took a solitary point in the sister Toro Rosso, both will be looking to get the upper hand on each other as the season draws to a close and Riccardo in the rear view mirrors when the 2012 contracts get drawn up.

Renault showed a resurgance in Monza with Bruno Senna taking his first F1 points in 9th, he might have finished higher but he was caught up in the first corner crash which forced Petrov to retire after both cars had made it into Q3, but with Singapore being a totally different track, it will be a good test on whether the last upgrades for the car have worked.

Singapore is the first night race in F1 but apart from 2008 which was affected by deliebarate crashing and race fixing, the races have been rather dull with little action throughout the race and many fans criticising the circuit despite decent overtaking figures.

For Galahads superb write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/marina-bay-street-circuit/
 
He wasnt allowed to go for the fastest lap, shame especially as he likes records etc

Its going to be good to see him in the last few races allowed to really go for it once he has the WC. I doubt many will be finishing anywhere near him.
 
I've got no issue with the penalty, only with the consistent application of it.

The penalty is "causing a collision" which Hamilton undoubtedly did.
Likewise Alguersuari hit Trulli and he too was penalised.

However, Schumacher and Rosberg also caused collisions and they didn't receive drive through penalties.

I think it's this inconsistency and uncertainty which causes most frustration amongst fans and viewers.
If I'm honest, I think the stewards take into account how much the 'victim' is hindered before deciding whether the man in the wrong gets the penalty. They shouldn't, but we can't really do much.
 
At least the curbs didn’t cause anymore problems in the race, no curbs came loose and no bolts pulled up to puncture tyres (as suspected what happened to Hamiltons tyre in qually).
 
I'm talking about the entire race. Are you telling me thats not a good way to judge speed? Both of them had times in the race when they had clear track and fresh tyres. Yes I know about the fuel loads and the whole 'effort' factor but 2 seconds?
Your maths doesn't add up. Lewis went through the pits 5 times, did the best part of a lap with half a front wing and finished 28 seconds behind.

Your other comments about my motivations for disagreeing with you, which I have not quoted, are not helpful either. Full credit to Jenson. Geat race, but to suggest that he had 2 seconds naturally over Hamilton throughout the race is ridiculous. I think even Jenson would laugh at you if you tried to tell him that. I'm not trying to big anyone up, put anyone down or defend or exault anyone. I'm simply disputing your statements which I feel are entirely questionable. So let's not put each other in pidgin holes to make ourselves feel more vindicated. It is much more productive to discuss the facts and make judgements about the events than it is to make judgements about each other.
 
Your maths doesn't add up. Lewis went through the pits 5 times, did the best part of a lap with half a front wing and finished 28 seconds behind.

Your other comments about my motivations for disagreeing with you, which I have not quoted, are not helpful either. Full credit to Jenson. Geat race, but to suggest that he had 2 seconds naturally over Hamilton throughout the race is ridiculous. I think even Jenson would laugh at you if you tried to tell him that. I'm not trying to big anyone up, put anyone down or defend or exault anyone. I'm simply disputing your statements which I feel are entirely questionable. So let's not put each other in pidgin holes to make ourselves feel more vindicated. It is much more productive to discuss the facts and make judgements about the events than it is to make judgements about each other.
All fine and dandy - but who was 2nd and who 5th - that is the bottom line, all that matters.

The whole argument is totally irrelevant - done, dusted, kaput, over and any other words that might fit in
 
All fine and dandy - but who was 2nd and who 5th - that is the bottom line, all that matters.

The whole argument is totally irrelevant - done, dusted, kaput, over and any other words that might fit in

Fair enough. But that's not the statement I was disagreeing with. Who knows what the result would have been if Lewis hadn't, very unfortunately, got a puncture in Q3. Not much point discussing that though, because he did.

The point I am making is that you said Jenson was 2 seconds faster than Lewis throughout the entire race when in fact the entire difference in finishing time can be attributed to the penalty and the extra pitstops. I've said that and you have conceded though. I'm happy to discuss other points with you but let's not get them mixed up by changing the subject in our responses.

I will respond to your next topic now. Lets move on to the finishing order which you have now raised. You are right, there is nothing to debate there. Its written into the history books and debating numbers which are immovable is pointless and I would not attempt to. However, if all we looked at was the numbers, there would be no point watching the races, would there?

Great race and a great drive from both McLaren drivers. Shame about Lewis' silly mistake in an otherwise flawless drive. We can move on to that next if you like.
 
The point I am making is that you said Jenson was 2 seconds faster than Lewis throughout the entire race when in fact the entire difference in finishing time can be attributed to the penalty and the extra pitstops. I've said that and you have conceded though. I'm happy to discuss other points with you but let's not get them mixed up by changing the subject in our responses.

Changing the subject - you're changing the poster. I haven't actually commented on Jenson and Lewis, let alone a 2 second difference! I think that might have been Rasputin, but I could be wrong.

I will respond to your next topic now. Lets move on to the finishing order which you have now raised. You are right, there is nothing to debate there. Its written into the history books - I would doubt this - and debating numbers which are immovable is pointless and I would not attempt to. However, if all we looked at was the numbers, there would be no point watching the races, would there?

You mention numbers - what is the difference between 2 seconds and finishing places - and then you describe them as pointless. So what have you been arguing about exactly?

As far as I am concerned, there is only one reason to watch races - the races themselves - quite a naive point of view perhaps, but it's kept me going for 40+ years.

Great race and a great drive from both McLaren drivers. Shame about Lewis' silly mistake in an otherwise flawless drive. We can move on to that next if you like. Not today thanks' but appreciate the offer
 
I already posted the lap chart...

Slightly random point am i the only one who didn't notice that if you click the pic, it grows to the correct size. Always thought how it was difficult to read.

Thanks Artist.

So that confirms Vettel wasn't pushing at the end then.
As suspected, he just cruises at the end of races to save the engine and tyres and to minimise risk.

TBh, i thought most people would of understood that by now, Im Glad Button, and i suppose his team didn't just sit back and accept 2nd though. You never know you ask questions you may just get the awnser your looking for. If Button didn't get held up in traffic then maybe the result would of happened as in Canada. Its not alawys easy to to start "Racing" again when your thinking your cruzing to a victory.
 

Woah. Sorry buddy. My mistake. No need to write in your own blood. Pointing my error of identity out would have been enough but you do have my apology. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Hey mods. Fancy cleaning up this mess I just made?
 
Slightly random point am i the only one who didn't notice that if you click the pic, it grows to the correct size. Always thought how it was difficult to read.
I thought everyone knew that :D

TBh, i thought most people would of understood that by now
I think most suspected that but that's the first time we've actually known of Vettel being ordered not to push for fastest lap and to take it (relatively) easy.

That just underlines his pace though; how much further ahead would he finish every race if he was pushing as hard as everyone else?
 
Was just about to say that. After the safety car there was about a 25 second gap between Button and Hamilton I believe but does this mean Button was 25 seconds faster? No, he built that gap due to being on a more confortable position on tyres due to Lewis' unfortunate Q2 problem and heavy traffic. (Just incase you say I'm pro Hamilton I think Button did the better job on the day.)

As for the race on a whole, it wasn't bad but it wasn't good. A mediocre race was disguised a little by the DRS and only had a few overtakes that took place on other areas of the track. Vettel was again supreme and nobody had a chance of beating him (except Webber who I now consider to be in the bottom half of the grid rating-wise) as that Red Bull combined with Vettel's skill is just too fast.

Alonso again outperformed his car and got a solid result, as did Button, Di resta, Sutil, Rosberg and Perez (who did well to recover from a puncture). Hamilton was good in that race if not for one error. Massa was again way off Alonso's pace and then to boot was out of order with Hamilton in the 'driver's pen', Hamilton took a penalty for his actions and that should be the end of it. Massa was obviously mad and rash to act, the problem with what he has done is should a circumstance arise where Massa can harm Hamilton's race and it appears that he has delibrately done such a thing then he could land in a vat of boiling water facing a lor of nasty questions.

A good race for the new teams with Lotus outperforming Renault on merit with Virgin and HRT not too far behind. However I was dissapointed with the midfield teams who were seemingly oblivious to the leaders coming through and spoilt what may have been an exciting end to the race, and to finish that Williams again fluffed the chance to nick a point. What a dreadful season their having...
 
I thought everyone knew that :D

I think most suspected that but that's the first time we've actually known of Vettel being ordered not to push for fastest lap and to take it (relatively) easy.

That just underlines his pace though; how much further ahead would he finish every race if he was pushing as hard as everyone else?

Ah! misread that actually, ?Thought it was race specifically. But it does awnsers a few questions
 
Woah. Sorry buddy. My mistake. No need to write in your own blood. Pointing my error of identity out would have been enough but you do have my apology. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Hey mods. Fancy cleaning up this mess I just made?
I'd be quite grateful if the mods left it all in place - there was a lot of thought and typing involved.
 
I'd be quite grateful if the mods left it all in place - there was a lot of thought and typing involved.

OK. Mishap and all your thought and typing and red fonts aside I'm not really sure of your responses. You have basically said disagree, disagree, disagree without giving any comprehendible reasoning. Oh well. If you feel my mistake and your response adds to the debate then that's ok with me.

Oh. I'm totally with you on the races. I know they string together to make a championship, but I'd be just as happy to watch if each were one-off independent events. Although, in the post where I mistook you for Rasputin, you said the only thing that mattered was the result. I disagreed with you on this which is why I replied, regardless of whether I had got the right guy.
 
OK. Mishap and all your thought and typing and red fonts aside I'm not really sure of your responses. You have basically said disagree, disagree, disagree without giving any comprehendible reasoning. Oh well. If you feel my mistake and your response adds to the debate then that's ok with me.

Oh. I'm totally with you on the races. I know they string together to make a championship, but I'd be just as happy to watch if each were one-off independent events.

I never disagree; I merely state my opinion - and I try to do it just the once unless there is a compelling reason to reiterate and expand :)
 
I never disagree; I merely state my opinion - and I try to do it just the once unless there is a compelling reason to reiterate and expand :)

Ok. But if your opinion differs to mine then it is in disagreement by it's nature. Rather than reiterate in your second statement, you revised. Whilst we are being pedants. ;)
 
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