Grand Prix 2011 Indian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Is the season over yet?

Unfortunately the answer is no as the F1 circus rumbles onto India for a brand new track, but after problems with the construction of the track, there is a degree of hesitation as not everyone is overjoyed about the prospect of a race there at the current moment in time. Added to the fact that it is another Tilke track, many fans aren't optimistic for an exciting race, but we've been proven wrong before. After all, we thought 2011 would be a close championship!!

Red Bull reasserted itself as the best car on the track after a dominant win in Korea with Vettel taking yet another win as he continues to rewrite the record books in the same way as Schumacher used to, just not as controversially as the elder German. Mark Webber had his strongest races recently pushing Hamilton very hard for second place, perhaps showing that he still has it for next season.

Hamilton put a long list of poor races behind to finish second in Korea after taking his first pole position of the season and it turned out after the race that he was running with tyre bits in the front wing which was costing a good couple a tenths a lap, something which would surely have cost him a true crack at a third race victory of the season, but at the very least it shows that he's getting back to his best, but a split with his partner might explain a less than happy mood recently.

Ferrari are constantly lingering as the team behind the top 2 and they are almost in a race with themselves as they are far quicker than Mercedes but not quick enough (mainly Massa) to challenge the Red Bulls and Mclarens for victories, particularly on a consistent basis after the problems with the EBD after Silverstone.

In the midfield there is a serious log jam as Mercedes, Renault, Force India, Sauber and Toro Rosso fight over points and championship places as a lot of money is at stake for 4th-8th in the championship and it's probably the best place to see action at the moment as the racing has been close and extremely well fought with different cars being better at each different circuit with none having the best all round package of the 5 teams. Now even Team lotus is getting involved in the action as they are starting to beat some of these cars on pure pace which will no doubt please the owners, and Kovalainen beating Petrov on pure pace in Singapore would particularly have pleased the team after the rows with Group lotus this season.

No-one knows what to expect from the Indian track, but early reports indicate it's better than previous Tilke tracks, but then it can't be worse than Bahrain and Abu Dhabi really.... We hope so anyway.

For Galahad's superb write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/buddh-international-circuit/

 

[Brogan]

Martin Brundle on the subject:

Already posted: http://cliptheapex.com/threads/2011...fying-race-discussion.3986/page-24#post-90264

 

[Brogan]

I can't help feeling that if Hamilton was the one who turned in on Massa in the same way there would be blue murder from certain quarters who are saying it's a racing incident........

Judging by posts on previous incidents, I can absolutely guarantee it.

 

[Vortex]

I said a similar thing on page 17.

If it had been Lewis who turned in and Massa bumped him off and Lewis got the penalty everyone would be saying it’s a Lewis witch hunt (halloween! geddit?).

 

[Jen]

I wasn't saying there was

Not having a pop MCLS - sorry if you thought so

 

[Josh]

I can't help feeling that if Hamilton was the one who turned in on Massa in the same way there would be blue murder from certain quarters who are saying it's a racing incident........

And in the same vein I can pretty much guarantee that if it was Hamilton who turned into Massa certain quarters who are saying it's Massa's fault would still say it's Massa's fault - funny world isn't it?

 

[FB]

Great, a circular discussion, just what we need

Just to put an end to it, Massa thinks it was Hamilton's fault. Hamilton doesn't seem to be blaming anyone apart from on the radio directly afterwards (good for him) and the Stewards who, let's face it, are much better placed than any of us, think it was Massa's fault and gave him a penalty. Can we leave it there?

 

[Il_leone]

I think both drivers have a lot more bigger issues to worry about then acting like two school kids having a playground fight right now

 

[no-FIAt-please]

A driver's opinion, Justin Wilson posted this on Twitter.

I liked that the stewards penalized Massa for Sunday's crash with @LewisHamilton. FM left the door open then turned in like LH wasn't there. If FM turned in earlier+gradual,that would be signal to LH to back out. Racecraft is all in the subtleties & its hard to see outside cockpit

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I think both drivers have a lot more bigger issues to worry about then acting like two school kids having a playground fight right now

To be fair, only one of them's acting like that though aren't they?

 

[Brogan]

Coulthard also blames Hamilton and thinks the stewards need to be more consistent.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mo...ton-collision-with-Felipe-Massa-in-India.html

Mark Hughes also seems to blame Hamilton.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15524661.stm

 

[P1]

I think the Stewards got it right.

Massa is obsessed with Lewis Hamilton. I can't imagine any scenario in which the two fight for position on a corner without a collission. Massa will obstruct Lewis at any cost. That collision would not have happened if Alonso or Vettel were in the car being passed.

This said, Lewis should have waited and passed him with DRS on a straight. He had the speed advantage.

 

[Brogan]

He had the speed advantage.

Apparently he didn't.

Hamilton deployed his DRS overtaking aid wing and all of his Kers power-boost yet still could not quite make the move work, despite getting alongside the Ferrari at both Turns Four and Five.
Massa's Ferrari was running much lower downforce than team-mate Fernando Alonso's and was very quick down the straight, having clocked 199.7mph through the speed trap there in qualifying compared to 196.4mph for Hamilton (and 197.1mph for Alonso).

 

[cider_and_toast]

How that Indian GP weekend went:

"The hand made suit is delivered to your door, several hours later a sports car picks you up and runs you to the best cinema ever made. You pull up outside and two of the worlds most beautiful women escort you to your seat and remain with you to bring you the finest food and drink money can buy. The cinema lights go down and the theme music starts, it's the most impressive tune played by one of the worlds greatest bands, The screen remains blank. After 2 hours of a blank screen, the final music plays, again one of the best tunes you've ever heard. The lights come back up and the ladies walk you back out to the sports car where they then take you out to a fabulous 5 star resturant and then a night on the town. When your friends ask you what the next day what the film was like, you tell them it was the greatest you've ever seen"

And that was the Indian GP.

Get the impression I didn't like it?

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

the Stewards who, let's face it, are much better placed than any of us, think it was Massa's fault and gave him a penalty. Can we leave it there?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95841

"The decision to penalise Felipe Massa for his contact with Lewis Hamilton came down to one simple fact - it could have been avoided. After looking at it from different camera angles and studying all the data available to us, it was clear that Massa knew where Hamilton was before he chose to turn across him.
There was nothing Hamilton could have done to avoid it. He did try to get out of the move, but it was too late and the contact was made."

 

[Jos the Boss]

New engine for Maldonado for next race, hence a penalty

 

[KekeTheKing]

Apparently he didn't.

McLaren have adopted Red Bull's setup approach. There's just one problem though; their cars can't control the race from the front. And when you find yourself in the pack with a low top-end speed, you're in for a long day.

This is probably a topic for another thread, but there is little doubt in my mind that Hamilton's misfortunes have directly coincided with McLaren's efforts to provide an extremely stable package at the expense of a high top-end speed. Coincidentally, or not so (as many might think), Button has benefited dramatically from McLaren's new Ultra-High Downforce setups.

 

[Fenderman]

Apparently the race organisers think that a pass was on for that now infamous corner. Otherwise, why would they have made that a DRS zone? I think Coulthard should ask himself the question how come he's in a commentary box never having made WDC. As for Mark Hughes he understands racing about as much as I understand rocket science - which is quite a lot but not nearly enough.

 

[Josh]

Apparently the race organisers think that a pass was on for that now infamous corner. Otherwise, why would they have made that a DRS zone? I think Coulthard should ask himself the question how come he's in a commentary box never having made WDC. As for Mark Hughes he understands racing about as much as I understand rocket science - which is quite a lot but not nearly enough.

The DRS zone is actually one corner before that corner so that's a bit of a silly argument in my opinion.

 

[Fenderman]

The DRS zone is actually one corner before that corner so that's a bit of a silly argument in my opinion.

That's what I thought until, and I wonder why, Mark Hughes says this?:

"The build-up came on the previous lap when, under pressure from Hamilton, Massa got out of shape at the exit of Turn Three, the slow corner onto the very long straight, making him vulnerable to the McLaren into Turn Four at the end of that straight.
Hamilton deployed his DRS overtaking aid wing and all of his Kers power-boost yet still could not quite make the move work, despite getting alongside the Ferrari at both Turns Four and Five"

 

[The Pits]

That move was on the lap prior to the overtake. The following lap (the lap of the overtake), I believe he goes on to say that Lewis saved some of his KERS to use coming out of turn 4 towards turn 5, as overtaking in the DRS zone was difficult due to the speed advantage of the Ferrari over the McLaren.