Grand Prix 2011 Indian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Is the season over yet?

Unfortunately the answer is no as the F1 circus rumbles onto India for a brand new track, but after problems with the construction of the track, there is a degree of hesitation as not everyone is overjoyed about the prospect of a race there at the current moment in time. Added to the fact that it is another Tilke track, many fans aren't optimistic for an exciting race, but we've been proven wrong before. After all, we thought 2011 would be a close championship!!

Red Bull reasserted itself as the best car on the track after a dominant win in Korea with Vettel taking yet another win as he continues to rewrite the record books in the same way as Schumacher used to, just not as controversially as the elder German. Mark Webber had his strongest races recently pushing Hamilton very hard for second place, perhaps showing that he still has it for next season.

Hamilton put a long list of poor races behind to finish second in Korea after taking his first pole position of the season and it turned out after the race that he was running with tyre bits in the front wing which was costing a good couple a tenths a lap, something which would surely have cost him a true crack at a third race victory of the season, but at the very least it shows that he's getting back to his best, but a split with his partner might explain a less than happy mood recently.

Ferrari are constantly lingering as the team behind the top 2 and they are almost in a race with themselves as they are far quicker than Mercedes but not quick enough (mainly Massa) to challenge the Red Bulls and Mclarens for victories, particularly on a consistent basis after the problems with the EBD after Silverstone.

In the midfield there is a serious log jam as Mercedes, Renault, Force India, Sauber and Toro Rosso fight over points and championship places as a lot of money is at stake for 4th-8th in the championship and it's probably the best place to see action at the moment as the racing has been close and extremely well fought with different cars being better at each different circuit with none having the best all round package of the 5 teams. Now even Team lotus is getting involved in the action as they are starting to beat some of these cars on pure pace which will no doubt please the owners, and Kovalainen beating Petrov on pure pace in Singapore would particularly have pleased the team after the rows with Group lotus this season.

No-one knows what to expect from the Indian track, but early reports indicate it's better than previous Tilke tracks, but then it can't be worse than Bahrain and Abu Dhabi really.... We hope so anyway.

For Galahad's superb write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/buddh-international-circuit/
 
Brundle was also wrong to say that this is the 6th Tilke circuit of the season. That cursed name has been involved in designing, wrecking or otherwise mashing up the following circuits:

Hockenheimring,
Circuit de Catalunya
Autodromo Nazionale Monza
Nürburgring
Silverstone Circuit
Sepang International Circuit,
Bahrain International Circuit,
Shanghai International Circuit,
Istanbul Park Racing Circuit,
Valencia Street Circuit,
Marina Bay Street Circuit,
Yas Marina Circuit
Buddh International Circuit

What a run of success !!!

Anyway, drifting off topic a bit. Sorry.
 
Ok, let's go through these one by one...

Hockenheim - ok he removed the unique character from the track, but at least it is now a racing circuit - rather than a 200 mph procession
Catalunya - Well, there wasn't any racing before the final chicane was put in anyway - the only way to increase racing on that circuit would have been to rebuild the final corner as a banked 180 degree corner
Monza - I'm not sure Tilke was involved
Nurburgring - Introducing the first tight right then left has introduced an overtaking spot on this circuit - whereas there were none before.
Silverstone - See Monza
Sepang - In my opinion, this is a great circuit for drivers, and it allows racing as well
Bahrain - Before 2010, this was rated as one of Tilke's better tracks - it is only that we all remember the bore-fest that was 2010 due to the organisers introducing the new twiddly rubbish
Istanbul - Another great circuit - just a shame no-one ever came to see it
Marina Bay/Valencia - ok I'll give you these, but with the constraints that he had to build a circuit within the streets, this isn't bad.
Yas Marina - I'm not a great fan, but just a few small tweaks would make this an incredible circuit
Buddh International - Again, I thought this was a great little circuit, but would benefit from the long 180 degree corner being banked.

Those people who blame Tilke for all the bad things in F1 should remember that he had nothing to do with the original planning of such masterpieces as the Hungaroring, Monaco, Detroit, Phoenix, Las Vegas, San Marino (post 1994) etc etc etc...
 
Ok, let's go through these one by one...

Hockenheim - ok he removed the unique character from the track, but at least it is now a racing circuit - rather than a 200 mph procession
Catalunya - Well, there wasn't any racing before the final chicane was put in anyway - the only way to increase racing on that circuit would have been to rebuild the final corner as a banked 180 degree corner
Monza - I'm not sure Tilke was involved
Nurburgring - Introducing the first tight right then left has introduced an overtaking spot on this circuit - whereas there were none before.
Silverstone - See Monza
Sepang - In my opinion, this is a great circuit for drivers, and it allows racing as well
Bahrain - Before 2010, this was rated as one of Tilke's better tracks - it is only that we all remember the bore-fest that was 2010 due to the organisers introducing the new twiddly rubbish
Istanbul - Another great circuit - just a shame no-one ever came to see it
Marina Bay/Valencia - ok I'll give you these, but with the constraints that he had to build a circuit within the streets, this isn't bad.
Yas Marina - I'm not a great fan, but just a few small tweaks would make this an incredible circuit
Buddh International - Again, I thought this was a great little circuit, but would benefit from the long 180 degree corner being banked.

Those people who blame Tilke for all the bad things in F1 should remember that he had nothing to do with the original planning of such masterpieces as the Hungaroring, Monaco, Detroit, Phoenix, Las Vegas, San Marino (post 1994) etc etc etc...

I think Tilke gets too much stick. Sure, there have been some shocking circuits (Valencia) but many have been good (Sepang, Istanbul, Buddh, Austin looks good on paper), and, like you said, many could have a few weaks and they would be great (Singapore, Abu Dhabi)
 
Don't forget the A1-ring/ Osterreichring. One of the fastest and most exciting circuits (even with the Hella-Licht chicane) reduced to a really god-awful track. Yet it was this track that caught the attention of Mr Ecclestone who insisted on him making hundreds more.
 
My take on the collision yesterday between Hamilton and Massa was that, as Massa said, he braked later than Hamilton on the grippy racing line, which is why you see him surge ahead half a car length just before he turns in. He told us yesterday evening he knew that Hamilton was inside before he braked and his mistake therefore was thinking that by braking later he’d got far enough ahead to turn in.
Compare this to the various battles Alonso and Webber have had lately, including in the opening laps on Sunday. Every time they try to pass they give each other room and that’s what Massa should have done in this incident. To turn in as he did, he knew that a collision was almost certain and that’s why he got a penalty.

A good quote from James Allen on the Hamilton/Massa incident.
 
Martin Brundle on the subject:
Hamilton was clearly faster at this stage of the race and a great exit from Turn Four saw him moving partly alongside Massa.

What is significant here is that Turn Five is a fifth-gear sweeping left-hander with limited braking, and hard enough to get right one at a time.

Massa was penalised for the subsequent contact because he was looking in his mirror and so was deemed to have seen the other car.

That is nonsense - at 180mph, you have to look in your mirror and make a split-second judgement call as to whether it is your corner or not depending on exactly where the other car is.

I wrote this column on the plane back from Delhi and around me were drivers and team principals, along with other people I respect, and nobody can understand the Massa drive-through penalty.

I stand by my instant call in the commentary box that it was a racing incident - as Hamilton himself described it.

Massa should have left more room but Hamilton should have eased out of the throttle - in that particular bend. There is no point in risking another front-wing change there unless you are fully alongside and have claimed the corner.
Have to say I agree with what he says.
 
That's exactly what I believe he did as well. Even thought he thinks he has the moral highground as he is ahead, what I can't quite understand is why on earth he would knowingly engage in a collision thus potentially wrecking his own race.
 
Sounds like MB is sitting on the fence a bit when he says Massa should have left more room but Hamilton should have backed out of it (to be fair to Lewis he tried but as MB says you've got to make decisions in the blink of an eye and Hamilton was just too late). He says it's a racing incident but I don't think we have those nowaday's blame culture. In my opinion Hamilton was far enough alongside Massa to be considered to have the inside, it was only in the braking zone that Massa claimed some of that distance back. That is partly why I think there is some confusion as to who is at fault because at the moment of impact it looks as though Hamilton only has his fronts alongisde Massa's rears.
 
I think it was a 'racing incident' - sadly those in the fray don't always get it right nor do they have the time to make a measured and considered response - the very nature of racing surely?
 
Please don't do that - edits make a nonsense of the thread unless all who come after know what was originally said - sorry to be so pedantic and no offence meant
 
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