Grand Prix 2010 Turkish Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Race 7 of the season and it's back to a "real" track in the form of the Istanbul Park Circuit. It features the famous turn 8 which has four apexes and could prove to be a real test this season as the cars will be starting with full fuel loads.

Ferrari have traditionally done well here but Red Bull are the team to beat. They're also debuting their version of the F-duct this weekend so could have an even bigger advantage. Mark Webber will be looking to score his 3rd race victory in a row but Sebastian Vettel might have something to say about that, especially now he has a new chassis after the team identified an "issue" with the one he used at the previous 2 races.

McLaren will be hoping for a strong finish for both drivers after Button's engine failure in Monaco on lap 2 and prior to that Hamilton's wheel failure on the penultimate lap in Spain.

Ferrari's Felipe Massa will be hoping for his usual strong performance at Turkey. If Alonso gets the better of him here then expect a not-so-subtle shift in the team focus. This race could be crucial for Massa, especially considering it's nearing contract negotiating season.

Michael Schumacher will be trying to build on his performance from Monaco. Prior to his post-race 20 second time penalty he was actually ahead of Nico Rosberg on the track and will be looking to repeat that this weekend.

Renault will be looking to Robert Kubica again to bring home the points for the team. He could have a harder job this weekend though and will do well to finish in the top 6.

Force India scored their first ever double points finish 2 weeks ago. Can they repeat the feat?

As for the rest, they will just be thankful to finish. With all the new upgrades the established teams are bringing, HRT could be even further off the pace than they were in Spain.

 

[Enja]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Canada.

The front row.

Two teammates.

One of them gets a slightly tardy start.

The other pulls alongside and dives down the inside of the guy on pole.

He misses his braking point, scampers across the grass and rejoins the track, losing places.

The rivalry is well and truly born, set on an inescapable path of total destruction.



Is that 2007, or 2010?

YOU DECIDE.

 

[Galahad]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

If factions within Red Bull are favouring one driver over another, then they're bloody idiots. They want to look at where the team was three or four years ago, and consider how incredibly lucky they are to be in the position they are now. Isn't it enough for one of their drivers to win it? And the constructors, which is (should be) more important to them anyway?

I reckon it's Marko. Vettel winning would be a feather in his cap as he's the young "talent-spotter". Ideally Horner wouldn't tolerate a loose cannon within the organisation, but Helmut has known Mateschitz much longer than Christian has, and consequently the two are reputedly very close.

 

[Brogan]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I reckon it's Marko. Vettel winning would be a feather in his cap as he's the young "talent-spotter". Ideally Horner wouldn't tolerate a loose cannon within the organisation, but Helmut has known Mateschitz much longer than Christian has, and consequently the two are reputedly very close.

I think that just about sums up the current situation.

 

[teabagyokel]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

It's a bit like sending your number 2 striker out with his boot laces tied together because he had the audacity to score 2 more goals than your 25 Million pound summer signing from Madrid.

I think Real themselves were quite close to doing that to Gonzalo Higuain at one point this season!

Personal ambitions of people like Helmut Marko should not be tolerated in an organisation which has serious designs on the F1 drivers championship. He's an irrelevance. If its a driver or even Adrian Newey, fair play for the ambition, but Red Bull do not need Marko to be attempting to attach strings to his bow.

For the company, it doesn't matter if the driver has come from the Red Bull Youth, does it? I mean, they've taken the plunge on Webber where no-one else did. If a RBR car wins the Championship it looks good for the company, doesn't it?

We remember Senna and Prost, but we also remember McLaren-Honda either way!

 

[snowy]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Red Bull would be very wise to thoroughly exorcise any preferential treatment or leaning toward any particular driver. Adrian Newey walked away from Williams for one reason. The shoddy way they treated Damon Hill.

 

[Brogan]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Some interesting comments from James Allen on the Red Bull favouritism.

Last year after the race at the Nurburgring, I went into the Red Bull motorhome to congratulate Mark Webber on his first Formula 1 victory.

There was no sign of Webber, but team principal Christian Horner and Dr Helmut Marko were deep in conversation next to the bar. Both looked pretty serious. Webber had won the race while Vettel had finished second, largely due to being rather tentative in qualifying, where he ended up fourth. I watched him very closely that weekend and spoke to him several times and I felt that he was really feeling the pressure of a home Grand Prix where you are expected to win.

Mark Webber’s partner Ann Neal came out of the drivers’ area and walked across the room. One of the team said something like, “Isn’t it fantastic, Mark’s win?” To which she replied rather tartly, “I’m glad someone around here is pleased.” And indeed it did seem more like a wake than a celebration.

What's becoming clear is that Red Bull wanted a clear number 2 to Vettel and presumably that's what they thought they were getting when they signed Mark.

Now that he is starting to win races and pull ahead in the championship, it's not going at all to plan.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/05/so-is-vettel-the-favoured-son-at-red-bull/

 

[FB]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

What's becoming clear is that Red Bull wanted a clear number 2 to Vettel and presumably that's what they thought they were getting when they signed Mark.

I wonder if the 7th Marquess of Bute is still interested in driving an F1 car?

 

[teabagyokel]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

What's becoming clear is that Red Bull wanted a clear number 2 to Vettel and presumably that's what they thought they were getting when they signed Mark.

I wonder if the 7th Marquess of Bute is still interested in driving an F1 car?

Or even worse, Nelsinho Piquet.

If their #1 cannot beat their #2, then they have recruited incorrectly!

 

[snowy]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

This article in Autosport may have slipped under some peoples radar and I think it casts some doubt on the running low on fuel assertions by both Red Bull and McLaren.

Autosport Horner: Webber asked Vettel to back off

Christian Horner is quoted as saying:

"It looked like Mark started to struggle with the rear tyres a bit more - that's what it looked like on the pit wall," said Horner. "And Sebastian, between laps 38 and 39, really closed up rapidly to the back of Mark, obviously got a run on him on lap 40 and they both found themselves in a situation they didn't want to be in."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84093

 

[Muddytalker]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

This article in Autosport may have slipped under some peoples radar and I think it casts some doubt on the running low on fuel assertions by both Red Bull and McLaren.

Autosport Horner: Webber asked Vettel to back off

Christian Horner is quoted as saying:

"It looked like Mark started to struggle with the rear tyres a bit more - that's what it looked like on the pit wall," said Horner. "And Sebastian, between laps 38 and 39, really closed up rapidly to the back of Mark, obviously got a run on him on lap 40 and they both found themselves in a situation they didn't want to be in."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84093

*Ahem*

More unnecessary comment from Horner

Really, he just needs to shut up and show that he can manage a race team. This reads to me as another thinly-veiled attack on Webber, and shows that he isn't going to let it lie.

 

[Brogan]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Going into lap 40 of the Turkish Grand Prix - the lap Red Bull drivers Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel collided - team boss Christian Horner instructed Webber's race engineer Ciaron Pilbeam to tell Webber to allow Vettel past. Pilbeam could not bring himself to pass the message on. (Autosport magazine)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8722012.stm

I think that's fairly clear now with regards to the pecking order in Red Bull.

 

[fat jez]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Doesn't that sound dangerously close to team orders?

 

[Brogan]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

It all becomes clear now why Lewis was so unhappy at the end of the race.

This is from the official F1 race edit for Turkey:

Pits - "Lewis we need to save fuel, both cars doing the same"
Lewis - "Jenson is closing in on me guys"
Pits - "Understood Lewis"
Lewis - "If I back off, is Jenson going to pass me or not?"
Pits - "No Lewis, No"
[Button passes Lewis, Lewis retakes the place]
Pits - "Jenson we need to save fuel, fuel is critical, must save fuel"

So either the team didn't tell Jenson or Jenson chose to ignore them.
I suspect we'll never know which.

FOM seems to be making a massive point with this.
They have put the radio messages in huge graphics on the screen, just in case anyone misses them.
It's interesting that they haven't done the same with Red Bull's radio messages.
If I didn't know any better I would say FOM is not being impartial with this and is deliberately trying to cause dischord within McLaren as part of an agenda.
Surely not though, eh?

Video here: http://www.formula1.com/video/?inptC=Turkey&inptY=2010&inptT=Race Edit

 

[Enja]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Sure, FOM are playing games, but it's a fun game.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Simple.

If their isn't major discord, disharmony or scandal between FOM, FIA and FOTA, create some. It's good for ratings don't you know.

I thought the off track side of things was a little too harmonious of late.

 

[Muddytalker]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Thankfully Jean Todt is keeping well out of it, as he should.

 

[Enja]

Re: 2010 Turkish GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Simple.

If their isn't major discord, disharmony or scandal between FOM, FIA and FOTA, create some. It's good for ratings don't you know.

I thought the off track side of things was a little too harmonious of late.

Except this is (for the most part) on-track.

It IS good for ratings. Discord between the drivers? Yeah, bring it on. Power struggle that could break the sport apart? Er, no thanks.