Time For McLaren To Employ Team Orders "Soon"?

[The Pits]

I seem to remember from comments afterwards that as Button went into the pits he and/or his engineers thought he could get out ahead of Webber. It certainly looked that way to me at the time, watching from Vale.

That was the plan, however, I as it was announced over the team radio, and Red Bull brought Webber in, I am not sure it would have worked.

One thing is for certain, it would not have worked with three wheels on the car. Along with the fuel saving, it is all speculation, all that is certain is that Jenson lost points in the last 2 races, regardless of cause, or how many points we would be talking (my guess would have been a 3rd and a 4th, but at worst 2 5th places)

Taking into account that Seb has had no DNF's yet, and is some way in the distance, and showing no real signs of seriously faltering, I would say that would be enough to assume that neither McLaren driver REALLY has a chance, although they have a chance, and would not be the drivers I believe them to be if they did not still go for it.

As for team orders, not sure that they would help either driver. Lewis is very clear about winning solely on merit, and Jenson has made his position clear, as have McLaren. I have also said before that I would hope that Jenson would do the right thing were he in a position to do so.

Just a little point for the conspiracy theorist, Jenson with the new wing in Silverstone and Germany (which proved to be slower than the old one?) also, Jenson with the new exhaust in Germany (which failed in P2, leaving him less track time) is there already signs of a shift of focus? or should I get my tin foil hat out of the cupboard?

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Three and a bit.

At Silverstone Lewis was fueled one kilo less than Button

Which one is it?

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Hang on, Ray..which was wrong, n'est pas? For he was dicing it out at the front too.

Aha ha!

Galahad, my friend, Hamilton was going mano-a-mano with Alonso and Vettel at the very front of the Grand Prix!

Button was no where near Alonso or Vettel while Hamilton was dicing it out with those two big boys!

Jenson was covering only the number 2 Ferrari boy Massa (in 6th) while Hammy was battling away out front for the lead.

 

[Galahad]

Bah. Hamilton held Vettel up for a bit in the middle of the race while Fernando sped away. Not my idea of mano-a-mano.

The gap between the McLarens was never very big, and at the time of those pitstops it had closed substantially. It's your position on the last lap that counts.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Bah. Hamilton held Vettel up for a bit in the middle of the race while Fernando sped away. Not my idea of mano-a-mano.

Didn't you see Hamilton over-taking Alonso ... and then Alonso re-taking Hamilton?

Hamilton held off Vettel vigorously for an entire stint!

So, as you can see, Hamilton was going toe-to-toe against the two guys who finished 1-2 in the race. If Button only had one more Kilo of fuel than Hamilton, that wasn't going to be good enough to finish on the Podium. NO WAY!

 

[Sarinaide]

I still don't think the gap between the McLaren drivers is enough to default to a de facto number 1 driver position, Button by and large has matched Hamilton.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Three and a bit.

Sorry, I was a race behind there!
And thanks for pointing it out Brogan; that looks even better for Lewis.

And guys, it doesn't matter any more what might or might not have happened at Silverstone. What's done is done, we are where we are, etc. and what matters now is what happens in the eight races ahead.

 

[Galahad]

Even if it's true that Button started with only 1kg of fuel more - and I don't know where that figure has come from - then he was certainly carrying much more by that stage of the race, as by McLaren's own admission Hamilton's consumption had been higher.

We'll never know, but it's far from cut and dried that Hamilton would have finished ahead at the end.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I still don't think the gap between the McLaren drivers is enough to default to a de facto number 1 driver position, Button by and large has matched Hamilton.

Spoken by a true Ferrari fan who want's to see McLaren dilute it's efforts!

What's done is done...and what matters now is what happens in the eight races ahead.

So...Back on track in terms of which McLare guy is likely to worry Vettel more in the WDC...and, so, here are some stats from Clip The Apex's Race Hub 'Head-to-Head' 2010 and 2011.

Qualifying: Hamilton 21 - 8 Button

Race: Hamilton 19 - 10 Button

Points: Hamilton 374 - 323 Button

Clearly, Hamilton is likely to start the remaining races of 2011 from a higher grid position and score more points.

Hamilton needs McLaren to re-focus on him sooner rather than later.

 

[Andyoak]

"Just a little point for the conspiracy theorist, Jenson with the new wing in Silverstone and Germany (which proved to be slower than the old one?) also, Jenson with the new exhaust in Germany (which failed in P2, leaving him less track time) is there already signs of a shift of focus? or should I get my tin foil hat out of the cupboard?"

Definately tin foil hat time...
I have been chuckling that all the nonsense that McLaren hate / are sabotaging Lewis stuff falls flat when looking at what has happened to Jenson lately.
Seems no one believes in bad luck any more...

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Seems no one believes in bad luck any more...

Didn't they used to say of Mark Webber that if he didn't have bad luck he'd have no luck at all?

 

[Sarinaide]

Clearly, Hamilton is likely to start the remaining races of 2011 from a higher grid position and score more points.

Hamilton needs McLaren to re-focus on him sooner rather than later.

Are you Hamiltons PR manager?

So the two DNF's default the fact that until then Button was out racing Hamilton, lets also factor in that Buttons DNF's were not self inflicted while Hamilton's was...........Button is good enough in that car to keep Hamilton honest and challenge.

 

[Brogan]

So the two DNF's default the fact that until then Button was out racing Hamilton

That's not entirely accurate.

Button has only been ahead of Hamilton for 3 races so far this season: http://cliptheapex.com/pages/2011-standings/

After Malaysia, Canada and Europe.

Ironically it was Hamilton's DNF at Canada, after his collision with Button, which put him behind.

 

[Sarinaide]

I agree with the stats, but on a perfect sunday and had Button finished the Silverstone and German GP in the position that he was at retirement, he would still be in and around Hamilton's points, Button hasn't really done anything to suggest being the victim of team orders

 

[Brogan]

The same argument can be applied in reverse.

If it had been Button who had retired in Canada and Hamilton who had won, there would be an even larger gap between them - 75 points, or 3 race wins.

 

[Sarinaide]

True, I think Button needs a few races to see how all pans out, if say after Monza he is miles away then perhaps.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Are you Hamiltons PR manager?

No. But he could have done with having me as his PR manager in May and June when he was getting hauled up into Race Control and joking to the media about the FIA, being "black", etc.

I certainly couldn't have done any worse...and i'm not even in PR!

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

The thing is, as Massa found out so brutally twelve months ago, it doesn't matter whether you can beat your teammate or not, there are only two reasons for being given team orders:

1. Your teammate has a better chance of challenging for the title than you (or you are mathematically out of the running)
2. Your teammate is called Michael Schumacher

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

True, I think Button needs a few races to see how all pans out, if say after Monza he is miles away then perhaps.

Do you honestly think anyone can afford to wait til Monza?

At least there's 225 points available now. After Monza there's only be 150 points available...and who knows what Vettel's lead will be.

 

[Sarinaide]

Do you honestly think anyone can afford to wait til Monza?

At least there's 225 points available now. After Monza there's only be 150 points available...and who knows what Vettel's lead will be.

Before any team orders are given what we really need is this situation

Webber, Alonso, Hamilton (either or in top three), Massa, Button, Rosberg, Schumacher and any 3 others..........then Vettel. Sadly it won't happen.