Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:
  • Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
  • Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
  • Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
  • Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.
Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)
 
Completely agree Brogan so I shall move the Mclaren discussion on in a different way.

Mclaren always seem to be a team who 'adopt' drivers young and bring them through - some to success and some not. Lewis is of course the most obvious one. Mika was kind of brought through the same way. They attempted to do it with Jan Magnusen but that failed.

My question is do they have anyone they're nursing right now? We hear about the Ferrari and Red bull driver programmes all the time and I refuse to believe Mclaren don't have something set up similar.
 
It's a very good question.

The two names we always associate with McLaren of late are of course Gary Paffett and Pedro de la Rosa.
I'm not aware of any young up and coming drivers who they have an option on though.
 
Gary Paffet? The other driver forgot his name...

They have an agreement with the "Manor" team is that still going?
 
They run the 'McLaren Autosport Young Driver Awards' every year still, and I think quite a few of those boys get supported in one way or another, provided with funding or moved into drives. Lewis Williamson in GP3 I think is a beneficiary of that, possibly?

Since the creation of Mercedes GP there may be a bit of an issue about how the young driver programmes are going to work, since they seemed to be a joint effort between McLaren and Mercedes before (hence Mercedes engines in F3 and ending up 'parked' in the DTM like di Resta).
 
I just checked and Gary Paffet turned 30 this year and as a fellow 30 year old I think I won't be insulting anyone by saying thats not a youngster. Although I guess Damon was 32 when he came into F1.

Plus if Mclaren were really behind him as a driver and not a tester I think he'd have been in an F1 race seat with a team lower down the grid by now.

I refuse to believe Mclaren don't have some sort of young drivers scheme though.

*edit* - posted without updating! thanks for the info guys!
 
For the sake of completeness here's my potted history of the McLaren team.

McLaren Mercedes

FIA Entry Vodafone McLaren Mercedes
Drivers
Car 3: Lewis Hamilton
Car 4: Jenson Button
Engine Mercedes V8
Team Principal: Martin Whitmarsh
Managing Director: Jonathan Neale
Engineering Director: Paddy Lowe
Design & Development Director: Neil Oatley
Race Engineer Car 3: Andy Latham
Race Engineer Car 4: Dave Robson

Stats as of end 2010

First Entered 1966
Races Entered 685
Race Wins 169
Pole Positions 146
Fastest Laps 143
Driver World Championships 12
Constructor World Championships 8

Team History

Only Ferrari have a longer history in F1 than McLaren and their record of race wins is 2nd only to the famous Italian team. Over the years many great drivers have driven for them and many future World Champions made their début in McLaren cars including Jody Scheckter and Alain Prost.

Bruce McLaren Motor Racing

In 1963, New Zealand born racing driver Bruce McLaren set up a company to build cars to enter into the Tasman race series. McLaren won the 1964 Tasman series whilst also driving in F1 for the Cooper team. In 1966, at Monaco, the first F1 McLaren, the M2B, debuted. The car retired but it began the history of one of the most famous and successful F1 teams of all time.

Bruce won the teams first race in Belgium in 1968 and Denny Hulme took back to back wins that same season in Italy and Canada. 1969 saw Hulme win the Mexican Grand Prix and 1970 started well for the team with both Hulme and McLaren taking 2nd places before McLaren was killed testing a CanAm car at Goodwood.

Teddy Mayer, who had been with McLaren when the team was set up in 1963, took over as team manager and oversaw the 1970's.

Yardley & Marlboro McLaren

1970 and '71 were both lean years for the team and they didn't win another race until Hulme crossed the line first in South Africa in 1972. 1973 saw introduction of the Gordon Coppuck designed M23. Hulme won one race and Peter Revson 2 giving the team 3rd place in the WCC. Emerson Fittipaldi joined Hulme for 1974, won 3 races to Hulme's 1 and took the Drivers Championship as well as the Constructors title.

Continuing with the M23 into 1975 the team won 3 more races, 2 for Fittipaldi and 1 for Jochen Mass. Fittipaldi left in 1976 and his seat was taken by James Hunt. Hunt won 6 races and, at the final round in Japan, finished 3rd to take the driver title. The McLaren team continued with the M23 into 1977 before replacing it with the M26.

The late 70's was a period of decline for McLaren. The M26 won 3 races, all in James Hunt's hands, but it's replacements, the M28 and M29 didn't manage a single victory.

McLaren International

At the end of the 1980 season Ron Dennis' Project 4 racing team, with some encouragement from mutual sponsor Marlboro, was merged with McLaren and McLaren International was born. With designer John Barnard McLaren gave F1 the first fully carbon fibre car and with John Watson at the wheel they won their first race since 1977 at Silverstone in 1981. The merger of the teams resulted in a revision of the car numbering system with the MP4 prefix being used.

1982 saw Niki Lauda make a comeback to F1 and he and Watson won 2 races each in the MP4/1 and the team finished 2nd in the Constructors Championship. 1983 was the last season for McLaren with the Cosworth DFV engine and mid-season the team moved to a Porsche built TAG engine. The team won only one race, Watson taking the winners laurels at Long Beach.

TAG Turbo

1984 saw Watson replaced by Alain Prost who had previously raced for the team in 1980. Lauda and Prost dominated the season finishing 1-2 in the driver championship, winning 12 of the 16 races, 7 for Prost and 5 for Lauda, and scored nearly 3 times as many points as 2nd placed Ferrari in the Constructors Championship.

1985 saw Prost win the first of his 4 Drivers Championships whilst Niki Lauda bowed out of F1 for a 2nd time with only a single win through the course of the season. Keke Rosberg partnered Prost for 1986 and Prost won his 2nd consecutive title (the first driver to do this since Jack Brabham in 1959/60) at the last race of the season.

McLaren's final season with TAG engines in 1987 was dogged by poor reliability. Prost won 3 races but team mate Stefan Johansson could only manage a best finish of 2nd.

Honda

Ayrton Senna joined Prost in 1988 and the team moved to Honda power. It was an astonishingly successful period for McLaren cars with Prost winning the drivers title in '89 and Senna in '88, '90 and '91. In 1988 McLaren won 15 of the 16 races, only missing out on a clean sweep when Senna crashed into Jean Louis Schlesser in Italy whilst leading. McLaren won 43 Grands Prix and the constructors title 4 seasons in a row. Prost left acrimoniously for Ferrari at the end of 1990 and his replacement, Gerhard Berger, contributed only a single win in Japan in 1991.

Senna won 3 races in 1992, the last season of Honda power but the McLaren was no match for the all conquering Williams FW14B. For 1993 McLaren returned to Cosworth power. Senna won 4 races and finished 2nd in the drivers Championship to arch Rival Alain Prost, now at Williams.

1994 was a season of transition. Senna left to join Williams and Peugeot replaced Cosworth as the engine supplier. McLaren failed to win a single race but it was the first full season for Mika Hakkinen at the team.

Mercedes

From 1995 through to today McLaren have used Mercedes engines. Nigel Mansell was listed to driver for the team in 1995 but found the car too small for him and he was replaced by Mark Blundell.

1995 and 1996 were barren seasons for the team and were also the last with Marlboro as title sponsors.

West McLaren Mercedes

In new silver and black livery for 1997 David Coulthard, having joined the team in 1996, retuned the team to the winners circle in Australia. Coulthard won the Italian Grand Prix that same season and Hakkinen took his first race win at the last race of the season at the European Grand Prix in Jerez.

1998 saw the team win their most recent Constructors title and Hakkinen took back to back Drivers titles in '98 and 1999 with Adrian Newey designed cars. 2000 and 2001 saw Hakkinen and Coulthard continue as drivers and although winning races the team were up against Michael Schumacher and the dominant Ferrari team.

Kimi Raikkonen replaced Hakkinen in 2002 ending F1's longest team/driver partnership. Coulthard managed only a single win, although the dominance of Ferrari in 2002 meant all other teams were left left to feed on scraps. 2003 saw the introduction of the MP4-18 car which proved problematic and the team had to revert to a D version of the MP4-17 car for the entire season. Despite this Coulthard won the season opener in Australia, Raikkonen took his first Grand Prix victory in Brazil and was still in contention for the drivers title until the last race of the season.

The MP4-18 was re-designated as the MP19 for 2004 but had to be radically re-designed during the season and redefined as B spec. Raikkonen won the Belgian Grand Prix in the revised car but it was to be McLaren’s only success that year.

2005 saw Juan Pablo Montoya replace Coulthard and the MP4/20 proved far more successful than it's predecessor. Raikkonen won 7 races, Montoya 3 and the team finished 2nd in the Constructors race to Renault. McLaren didn't win any races in 2006, the first time for 10 years, and it was a turbulent time with the cars suffering from poor reliability and Adrian Newey threatening to leave for Jaguar destabilising the team. Montoya left the team before the end of the season to race in NASCAR and Raikkonen left for Ferrari after the final race.

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes

2007 saw McLaren partner 2006 World Champion Fernando Alonso with McLaren protégée Lewis Hamilton. It proved to be an even more turbulent year than 2006 as in-fighting between the drivers created tension in the team and McLaren were stripped of their Constructors Championship points having been found guilty by the FIA of using technical data illegally acquired from Ferrari. Despite all the problems both drivers won 4 races and at the season finale in Brazil each had a chance to win the Drivers Title. Ultimately Kimi Raikkonen won the Championship for Ferrari and McLaren and Alonso agreed to terminate their contract for 2008.

Heikki Kovaleinen joined Hamilton at McLaren for 2008 and scored his first GP victory in Hungary. Hamilton eventually beat Felipe Massa to the Drivers Championship taking 5th place two corners from the the end of the final race of the season to win the title by a single point and, at the time, becoming the youngest Champion.

New regulations for 2009 saw McLaren struggle and Ron Dennis stood down as Team Principal being replaced by Martin Whitmarsh. Hamilton still managed two race wins and the team finished 3rd in the Constructors Championship.

2009 World Drivers Champion Jenson Button joined McLaren from Brawn for 2010 to partner Hamilton, giving the team an all British driver line up for the first time in it's history. The team won 5 races (3 for Hamilton and 2 for Button). Both drivers were challenging for the title late into the season but lost out to Red Bull's Sebastien Vettel in the final race of the season. McLaren finished 2nd in the Constructors Championship.

2011 sees the team continue with the same driver line up and a new car, the MP4/26.
 
Completely agree Brogan so I shall move the Mclaren discussion on in a different way.

Mclaren always seem to be a team who 'adopt' drivers young and bring them through - some to success and some not. Lewis is of course the most obvious one. Mika was kind of brought through the same way. They attempted to do it with Jan Magnusen but that failed.

My question is do they have anyone they're nursing right now? We hear about the Ferrari and Red bull driver programmes all the time and I refuse to believe Mclaren don't have something set up similar.

I am not sure how it came to the conclusion that Mclaren do not have a young driver programme because they always had and it was inconjunction with Mercedes until recently
The Young Driver award allowd the winner to have a 1 day test with Mclaren as his reward and has only produced one world champion - JENSON BUTTON...the award has never been won by Lewis Hamilton. The only other Young Driver award winner who drove for Mclaren in F1 was David Coulthard.

When Mclaren were in partnership with Mercedes pre 2010 the young drivers were predominantly international with support for people like

Nick Heidfeld - Mercedes backed
Stephane Sarrazin
Riccardo Zonta
Jan Magnussen to name a few but since then they've used Pedro De La Rosa and Gary Paffett as the test drivers

As for their young drivers...they have got British drivers as already mentioned and were backing JAn Magnussen's son Kevin as well as some 13 year olds from that karting programme that was shown on the BBC earlier this year I remember watching

MClaren would rather give young drivers the chance to learn the ropes of competitive racing before being thrown at the deep end into a top team unless in unique circumstances which was the case for Hamilton in 2007. Ron Dennis did not want Lewis Hamilton to jump straight into F1 and would rather he built up the experience until he was mentally ready..off course Montoya's actions and other drivers tied to contracts or refusing to partner Alonso except Pedro left very little options but to give Lewis the seat

If anything Lewis would have had to start at a team at the back of the grid or do DTM for one season.

I should say Mclaren do rate Paffett so would not have hesitation putting him in the car as stand in driver as well as they know Di Resta from Mercedes connections and some testing he's done as well as being managed by Lewis' dad. So DI Resta would be on Mclaren's radar
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I'll repeat the so called failed experiment comment that Whitmarsh made about Hamilton before some deluded fans try to lynch him because they did not read the whole article just the first few lines.

What Mclaren failed to do was realise Lewis was so use to winning and being in a competitive car and when they had a poor 2009 season earlier on, Lewis failed to understand that it could happen in F1 where drivers do not get a competitive car and might be battling for scraps.

Whitmarsh has said that their future drivers must be able to learn to deal with uncompetitive machinery therefore they would put their young drivers in junior formulas driving for uncompetitive teams to build that experience
 
Either way its a bad blunder given the situation when everyone was out on track

I briefly heard Jenson ask " are you sure about this ?"...at least he kept himself calm and not get too animated

I think Alonso and Lewis would have reacted more differently if it happened to them....Alonso must have had steam coming out of his ears but thats a Ferrari issue

AS for Lewis...great response after what Maldonado tried to do
 
Whitmarsh was very excitable with the BEEB before Quali. Maybe whilst Horner afterwards became more serious, Whitmarshs demeanour didn't change and this filters out to the team leading to sloppiness and errors. He always acts like a giggling little girl eager for praise from grownups
I cannot see how it can be entirely Jensons fault. His engineer should be on top of info about runs, laps, other cars on track etc

Yet again more excuses but the same result, cheap screwups from Mclaren when they need to be at least matching Red Bull on and off the track to have any chance
 
Whitmarsh was very excitable with the BEEB before Quali. Maybe whilst Horner afterwards became more serious, Whitmarshs demeanour didn't change and this filters out to the team leading to sloppiness and errors. He always acts like a giggling little girl eager for praise from grownups

And yet, fans ask team members and drivers not to be serious or like robots.... :rolleyes:

Don't mind Whitmarsh, he's done a good job....not his fault the team have got outsmarted by a certain ex-member....

If he didn't have the right attitude I am sure he wouldn't have got promoted to the position he was in.

And who does act serious when Eddie Jordan is around?
 
Whitmarsh at Mclaren is still doing a better job than Ferrari with their ex driver Alonso and ex employee Pat Fry and former engine "partner" Mercedes

If anything I think Whitmarsh should have been fuming at Maldonado for what he did to Hamilton after Q2
 
I don't know how happy Ron Dennis is with a measly 3rd place finish in Belgium.

McLaren were going to Spa with 2 straight wins in succession and had weather that advantaged them more than it advantaged Ferrari (who have trouble generating heat into their tyres in cooler temps).

Further, the RB7s were in tyre trouble...so, of the 'Big Three', they were the ones who looked favourite to get the win, possibly even a 1-2 (had they qualified the cars where they ought to have been) ... a 1-2 which they should have had in the previous race.

I'm wondering what Dennis was thinking while Whitmarsh was jumping for joy over Button's 3rd place finish at the BBC post race.

I'd be seriously cracking the whip. Spain was a 50/50 proposition but then they threw away a win at Monaco, a possible 1-2 in Canada, a highly probable 1-2 in Hungary and now a win in Belgium.

Lovely! :rolleyes:
 
But did they have tyre trouble throughout the race? I mean really? Once they got rid of the blistered set they’d qualified on (lap 4 and 6 was it?) they seemed ok to me. Certainly quick! Then effectively given back a free pit stop with the SC.
 
They were in more tyre trouble than Hamilton/Button. Because of the camber angles Newey chose for the Fronts - which they couldn't change lest they start the GP from the pits - they continued to blister their Softs quicker than anyone else.

Regardless, isn't there a reasonable chance that Hamilton could have won...and Button either won or finished 2nd had he qualified 'in position'?

They - McLaren, Hamilton, Button - have certainly made Vettel's job in 2011 much easier than it ought to have been. No question!
 
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