Grand Prix 2013 Brazilian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

It all comes down to the final race, sort of. There is no ‘versus’ this year, in terms of the WDC or the WCC – RBR have them both in the bag.

Alonso is safely second in the driver’s championship and, realistically, third place will go to either Hamilton or Webber – with Rosberg as a long shot if Hamilton and Webber fail to finish. Mark Webber usually excels here, and as this is his last race in F1, he may decide to go out in a blaze of glory and capitalise on Hamilton’s lack of luck in Brazil.

Second place in the WCC is as equally exciting, with Mercedes and Ferrari contending for the honour and cash. On paper, it should be Mercedes with two strong drivers; however, Massa sometimes does well at his home track, winning in 2006 and 2008, and may yet be inclined to pull his finger out again for his home fans!

Rumour has that the circuit is one of the most demanding for the drivers, and that it is loved by teams and fans alike but is that enough to create an exciting race when there is sod all at stake except for individual drivers who are still looking for next year’s seat?

Interlagos has been part of the F1 circus for 40 years, becoming a permanent fixture in 1990 and has been the venue for many deciding battles – sadly, not so this year – but it could yet throw up a stonking race.

 

[F1ang-o]

Who the **** cares about Massa leaving Ferrari. He has underperformed for most of the time since 2010, he had the pleasure of driving for the team this season only because Webber had no interest in moving there for this season. They have been trying to get their hands on plenty of other drivers.

Massa has been and still is extremely lucky to remain in Formula 1 if you ask me. Anyone else with those performances would have been out by now.

IMO this is really unfair comment......until his accident he was a top racer ...but whilst driving for Ferrari in 2009 at Hungary? a component from RubensB' car came off & hit Felipeon the head & almost killed him...his fight back from this injury & his racing getting back to top notch...only to be told at Hockenheim?, whilst in front of his team mate..."Fernando is faster than you.." IMO .....well tough Nando...catch/pass me if you can...that's bloody racing...............
But FM played the team/number two driver & let FA past......big mistake..... .HUGE

 

[Hamberg]

Did it really make that much difference to Hamilton's race? Without the drive through he might have finished a place or two higher but so what?

He thought he could have fought Alonso and then potentially finished higher in the WDC. Obviously all still good for Mercedes though.

 

[Fenderman]

With respect Plutus , Bottas was a lap down trying to un-lap himself. He was also the driver behind without even a quarter of his car alongside Hamilton. I am being diplomatic calling it a racing incident. In my view Bottas was best placed to avoid the collision. Expecting a driver to look in his mirrors at the point at which he is looking through a corner to exit is ridiculous. Countless times during the race there were similar circumstances - especially the Alonso vs Hamilton and Rosberg dices in the first couple of laps that showed how it should be done.

Edit: At that point in the race FB Hamilton was third in the WDC and potentially had a chance to nick a podium place from Alonso. Something to take home at the end of a fraught season methinks.

Edit 2: Watching yet another replay of the incident at normal speed (i.e. not slo-mo) by the time of contact when he was actually alongside Hamilton, Bottas had missed his braking point. At the speed he was going he would have left the track even without the collision!

 

[Greenlantern101]

We do need a LH VB thread don't we

 

[Plutus]

IMO this is really unfair comment......until his accident he was a top racer

Well, as you say, he was. Things change and when they do, so should the drivers if they under perform consistently. That is the harsh reality. He has had one outstanding season in 2008, although it was a weak year by both Hamilton and Massa in my opinion. 2009 was good too. But he is the same driver he was back in his Sauber years.

Next year he is supposed to be the team leader at Williams as the more experienced driver but he never showed those qualities at Ferrari.
I wish Williams and Massa the best. Honestly.

 

[F1ang-o]

Fenderman
Thank-you ...for your Edit.....saved me from posting..

 

[Hamberg]

Yes. Is there a need for me to rant about Webber at this point, no.

Is there a need for you to rant about Massa at this point? No. He is moving to a team that will benefit from having a solid driver and he is still better than a lot of drivers next season.

 

[Plutus]

Expecting a driver to look in his mirrors at the point at which he is looking through a corner to exit is ridiculous.

That's what I'll tell a police officer if I ever knock a cyclist off his bike. At no point, even down the straight, did he look into his mirrors. Hamilton was best positioned to take avoiding action, as he was the one on the inside and had most of the track to move onto.

Bottas was also focusing on the next corner, maybe he did think he had enough room to move towards the white line.

Is there a need for you to rant about Massa at this point? No. He is moving to a team that will benefit from having a solid driver and he is still better than a lot of drivers next season.

There is because the media is making such a fuss about it.

 

[F1ang-o]

Next year he is supposed to be the team leader at Williams as the more experienced driver but he never showed those qualities at Ferrari.
I wish Williams and Massa the best. Honestly.

So do I............IMO Williams & Massa deserve their luck to change....
And ....I don't think he was ever given the chance to show he could be a team leader at Ferrari.....much as I do believe they liked/loved him.

 

[Quintessentially]

The Brazilians still can't get over 2008.

Anyway season to forget unless you're a Vettel fan. Apparently this has been the driest season on the F1 calender for a long time.

 

[Plutus]

So do I............IMO Williams & Massa deserve their luck to change....
And ....I don't think he was ever given the chance to show he could be a team leader at Ferrari.....much as I do believe they liked/loved him.

He did. In 2007 Raikkonen was new to the team and he had that chance in 2008 and 2009, never really took it. Then in 2010 but Alonso took it. He has had a number of chances.

 

[F1ang-o]

I hope Sky get a new anchorman next year...
Lazenby is a complete *****/****

 

[F1ang-o]

Plutus
Felipe has been too nice/subservient......let's hope that he takes the reins next year..

 

[Hamberg]

That's what I'll tell a police officer if I ever knock a cyclist off his bike.

And here is the problem. The FIA rule book isn't the British Highway Code. I've reposted the rules Plutus, I'd be interested to understand if your interpretation of this incident is different to mine.

Okay re Bottas/Hamilton - the official regulations:
20.3 More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.

He moved back onto the racing line and left more than a cars width at the time of the collision.

20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his.

So Bottas did have the significant portion ahead but Hamilton didn't use the full width of the track, he used what was permitted in 20.3

20.5 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.

He didn't crowd him beyond the edge of the track but was it an abnormal change of direction? Seemed like a steady change in one to me.

 

[Fenderman]

Clearly it does Hamberg since bimbling around expecting a cyclist to overtake one on the outside is a distinct possibility in Germany. Maybe they have exceedingly fast cyclists and/or very slow motorists there.

 

[F1ang-o]

@Fenderman
Thank-you again...I've been trying to write about cyclist trying to overtake a F1 car travelling at xxx KPH...
& you have beaten/been able to explain it so easily....

 

[Plutus]

Hamberg, please. Stop. You are quoting a section of the regulations which have no relation to the incident which occurred in track. The regulations you are quoting only apply to drivers who are defending a position illegal by the means that are stated in section 20.3 to 20.5.

The incident that was investigated was for "causing a collision". Hamilton moved across and as a result touched with Bottas.

 

[Fenderman]

The regulation has everything to do with the incident since it governs the legitimate maneouvres the drivers are allowed to make. The charge that Hamilton caused the collision implies that his maneouvre was not legitimate. Our argument is that it was and that the stewards were wrong to see it as anything other than a racing incident.

I have watched more replays and it is clear that Hamilton's trajectory was already back toward a proper line for entry to the corner before Bottas was alongside. The point of contact was a result of the speed differential between the Mercedes on braking for the corner and the Williams which was still on full chat when Bottas should have been braking for the corner as well.

Anyway, I am on the verge of repeating myself so I shall agree to disagree, as I have no intention of becoming a scratched record.

 

[Plutus]

Fenderman, you're making a fool of yourself. I was relating to the "looking in the mirrors" part of your post. Not matter if you are on or off race should at all times be aware what is happening around and Hamilton clearly wasn't at that time.

 

[Titch]

He did indeed Plutus, and I like Hamilton, but everyone makes mistakes.