Poll Who is better: Fernando, Lewis, or Sebastian?

[The Pits]

Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso.

I agree that these are the top three, with the chasing pack snapping at their heels, but I personally feel that Alonso is not as good as his hype would suggest, good yes, great, possibly, but as good as many think? I struggle to see it. I for one would like to see Alonso and Hamilton in the same team again, I think it would be far more clear cut than it was. His reputation precedes him, and I think that hides a great deal, certainly in terms of perceptions.

 

[Jen]

I think you're wrong!

 

[steveg]

In terms of driving Hamilton is pure genius.
As for Vettel? The stats may be impressive but I'll reserve judgement until I see him driving a car that isn't nailed to the floor.

 

[Bushi]

Yeah, unlike Lewis who had to drive shitty car after shitty car.

 

[downforce]

Hamilton may have had decent cars but unlike the other 2 he has never been in a WCC car.

 

[Bushi]

Did ya miss 2007-08 and 2012?

 

[KekeTheKing]

Technically he's right, although we know McLaren scored the most points in 2007. But like pretty much all top line drivers throughout history, Hamilton has driven both great and substandard cars. There will be a time in the (near???) future that Vettel is not sat in a world beater, and we'll have more information on how to assess their respective careers.

 

[Road of Bones]

...and Oh! How we all long for that day...(except FB of course...)

 

[downforce]

Did ya miss 2007-08 and 2012?

Was that comment for me or someone else?

If it was for me then no, McLaren did not win the WCC in any of those years

 

[Josh]

They would have won it in 2007 were it not for their exclusion from the WCC and they probably should have won it last year too but they managed to screw that up.
This is why a WCC is not always indicative of a team having the best car. There are too many other factors involved. But I'm pretty sure you know that.

 

[steveg]

Hamilton may not have driven any milk floats but since 2007/2008 neither has he driven a championship winning car (and even during those two years the Ferrari was arguably better). The 2009 Mclaren was an absolute dog - TWO seconds off the pace yet he still managed to win races. And when the current W04 isnt chewing its tyres the back end can fan like a fish tail compared to the RB9 once Hamilton is pushing beyond its limits just to keep pace with Vettel in the race.

No doubt Vettel has done a flawless job in a championship winning car but would argue that other top tier drivers would be more than capable of the same feat in putting the best car by a country mile at the top of the pile where it belongs. If and when he starts putting lesser cars where they dont belong then he'll go up in my estimation in pure driving terms - the basis of my original post. And I say pure driving terms because where he does currently score over Hamilton IMO is in his meticulous approach to preparation, setup and strategy - Hamilton on the otherhand seems more loose and just unleashes his raw driving ability to compensate. But the problem is under Pirelli F1 has become less about Hamiltons chequers and more about Vettels chess.- one of the main reasons IMO behind the failure of Schumachers comback.

 

[downforce]

They would have won it in 2007 were it not for their exclusion from the WCC and they probably should have won it last year too but they managed to screw that up.
This is why a WCC is not always indicative of a team having the best car. There are too many other factors involved. But I'm pretty sure you know that.

I'm also counting reliability into part of the overall package of best car (and indeed team in regard to trackside errors)

You can't really argue that McLaren was a better place to be in 2012 than Red-Bull.

We all know Red-Bull has been the best team for years, and I'm not saying Vettel hasn't done the job required because he has.

I'm merely saying Hamilton has not had a car thats won a WCC and the other 2 have.

I think the 2007 Ferrari was slighlty better, McLAren had Alonso and Hamilton at the wheel which for on track results allows for some shortfall in performance (even if it doesn't help the politics)

 

[Josh]

Fair enough, technically you're right.

The 2007 Ferrari may have been slightly better but if Mclaren wasn't excluded they would have won it, so in my mind that's the year Hamilton was driving a car which was more than capable of winning the WCC even though they didn't. The reason they didn't had nothing to do with trackside errors though. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say but I hope you get it

Let's not turn this into a discussion about 2007 though, that's ancient history by now in F1 terms.

 

[teabagyokel]

2007 - McLaren best car, Hamilton loses title by one point.
2008 - McLaren 2nd best, Hamilton wins title by one point.

Let's call the whole thing off!

 

[sushifiesta]

If in 20 years time someone wants to make a film about this era of F1 a la Rush then 2007 would be the year to base it on.

 

[teabagyokel]

sushifiesta - Maybe á la Senna - through hidden footage obtained by one Road of Bones, no doubt!

 

[downforce]

Josh Sorry my trackside errors comment was in regard to 2012 with the super long pitstops and the fuel miscalculation in Spain etc.

sushifiesta Yeah, after I saw Rush I thought the exact same thing, Rush 2007 would be a great film!

 

[Road of Bones]

sushifiesta - Maybe á la Senna - through hidden footage obtained by one Road of Bones, no doubt!

Sadly, my sources weren't active until 2010...

 

[teabagyokel]

Sorry, I'll try to commision you for "Earth Car: What The Hell Were They Thinking" instead.

 

[Road of Bones]

To my shame, I remember when they unveiled it I thought "hmm...that's a good-looking car!"
...and then I watched Melbourne quali, and my illusions were cruelly shattered...