Williams - the inexorable slide...
- Thread starter Road of Bones
- Start date
Possibly but there is no doubt that they both visted Williams' HQ, according to Joe Saward anyway...
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/09/17/the-real-story-raikkonen-williams-and-sutil/
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/09/17/the-real-story-raikkonen-williams-and-sutil/
Il_leone
World Champion
Williams future is at least heading in the right direction
They've got the Renault engine which will be the same as Red Bull's and Williams said they get on very well with them unlike the somewhat arrogant German attitude of BMW
This should put them further the field next year
As for drivers
Maldonado is getting better but is not guaranteed his seat just because he brings money
Sutil is keeping his cards open after making noises he was moving to Renault last year than then having to fight for a drive at Force India he won;t want that again and his situation depends on what Mercedes do with Di Resta but if I was him I'd take the first opportunity to move as he needs a new challenge
Raikkonen ; Surprised me he is still interested in F1. What is his motive ? Is he missing F1 and is he going to price himself out of the drivers market like last time? Williams cannot afford his wages so would it mean Red Bull pay his wages ??
Barrichello ; I think its possibly end of the line for Rubens
Grosjean; Williams have a knack of taking on GP2 champions - ROsberg, Hulkenberg, Maldonado so Grosjean follows suit... . Would Williams get free engines if Grosjean being French was hired to please Renault ??
They've got the Renault engine which will be the same as Red Bull's and Williams said they get on very well with them unlike the somewhat arrogant German attitude of BMW
This should put them further the field next year
As for drivers
Maldonado is getting better but is not guaranteed his seat just because he brings money
Sutil is keeping his cards open after making noises he was moving to Renault last year than then having to fight for a drive at Force India he won;t want that again and his situation depends on what Mercedes do with Di Resta but if I was him I'd take the first opportunity to move as he needs a new challenge
Raikkonen ; Surprised me he is still interested in F1. What is his motive ? Is he missing F1 and is he going to price himself out of the drivers market like last time? Williams cannot afford his wages so would it mean Red Bull pay his wages ??
Barrichello ; I think its possibly end of the line for Rubens
Grosjean; Williams have a knack of taking on GP2 champions - ROsberg, Hulkenberg, Maldonado so Grosjean follows suit... . Would Williams get free engines if Grosjean being French was hired to please Renault ??
That's not racist...
Williams would be much better off with BMW if they continued and not in the slump they have been in since 2005 when thy announced the break up.
BMW wanted to succeed they got much more success than Williams did in those few years, i am still angry at BMW for 2008 and for leaving, but if they stayed they would have been a force to be reckoned with.
BMW wanted to succeed they got much more success than Williams did in those few years, i am still angry at BMW for 2008 and for leaving, but if they stayed they would have been a force to be reckoned with.
Well to contradict myself Sutil's manager is now saying that Force India is their first choice for 2012 and that they are currently not talking to any other teams.
Wouldn't count on that with all the articles I've been reading it looks like Williams are planning to take on 2 drivers that bring them in big bucks. Sutil would certainly do that but doubt he'd come. The Kimi thing must be a nonsense surely. I'd say Maldonado's big bucks make him fairly safe.
Andyoak
Champion Elect
I think Maldonado is the only sure thing for next year.
Kimi is unaffordable so if there is anything in this it will rely on Kimi's desire to work for Williams for a pittance if it is ever going to happen.
My gut feeling is they'll go for someone from GP2 with a good reputation for technical feedback and chance next year on cheap running costs so developement cash is thrown at 2013 / 2014.
Kimi is unaffordable so if there is anything in this it will rely on Kimi's desire to work for Williams for a pittance if it is ever going to happen.
My gut feeling is they'll go for someone from GP2 with a good reputation for technical feedback and chance next year on cheap running costs so developement cash is thrown at 2013 / 2014.
Il_leone
World Champion
Both MErcedes and BMW have this attitude about them that they belive the German way is best at doing things
Looking at how Mercedes tried to takeover the engine building at Mclaren and was met with endless engine failures and their disappointing return as a full F1 team says otherwise. Mercedes HQ are impatient for success..they were quick to ditch Sauber once they realised the team was not going to be a big player in F1 despite their successes in Sportscars
They did consider leaving Mclaren and F1 and kept asking Norbert Haug whether F1 was worth the investment given they were also in Indycar as well
BMW ditto with Williams who said they never had problems when working with Honda or Renault and were somewhat unhappy with the constant moaning by BMW telling them they were not good enough or their way was better
Il_leone
World Champion
There is no smoke without fire... and also if he wants to remind his bosses that other teams want him so he can ask for a pay rise
Also look at it this way Sutil was making noises last year he was going to Renault and when that failed he was scrambling to save his F1 career and is still at Force India through sponsors mainly.
What does Sutil have to go gain by being at Force India...he's been with the team since it was Spyker and this is a team that is somewhat stuck in the midfield rather than being able to challenge the front unless VJ has more money stashed away than the Arabs of the Middle East
Force India do not like GP winners and are going to be another Sauber to be honest.. so is Sutil happy to stay at a team where really he can;t prove himself anymore look what happened to Panis and Heidfeld for staying with midfield teams for too long
Obviously building success takes time, now while they built an unreliable engine it was also a fast engine, and just look at the engine over the last 5 years. It's been the fastest and most reliable engine with the fuel consumption being average.
As for Mercedes being impatient they have been in F1 for over 15 years as an engine supplier now, that in itself must show that they have a commitment to F1, especially seeing as they have a works team now.
BMW tried F1 with as an engine supplier in 1950s, 1960s and 1980s. Then they were with Williams for five years and shared a significant amount of success, after realising that their partnership wouldn't bear the fruit they were after they left. So they partnered with Sauber and spent hundreds of millions of pounds and countinued for another 4 years with considerable success. Then they finally quit once the world had just entered a financial collapse and other manufacturers were doing the same thing, keeping their money. Because at the end of the day manufacturers are in F1 for one reason only, publicity and if their accounts don't justify the vast amount of money they are spending in F1 then they're out.
I think after having a 9 year stab at F1 you can hardly say BMW put no effort into it and left right away.
And it is racist because you likened the way BMW and Mercedes acted as an "arrogant German attitude" which is calling all Germans arrogant, when instead it was just 2 companies going about their business in a manner they saw fit.
Great post there no-FIAt! 
These two car manufacturers get a lot of unfair criticism from F1 fans, I rarely doubt BMW quitted because they weren't "winning" they were a great team it is a shame they pulled the plug.
As for Mercedes they know it will take time to get to the top, they have been saying since 2010 that 2013 is their target to get a competitive car, they have massive amounts of pressure from fans who expect them to have a competitive car right away because they took over Brawn which wasn't the team it was after Honda left.
Back to Williams, it has been stated in a Finnish article that Williams have made the decision that Barrichello won't race for them next season but they are yet to make it public, don't know if that's true or not
These two car manufacturers get a lot of unfair criticism from F1 fans, I rarely doubt BMW quitted because they weren't "winning" they were a great team it is a shame they pulled the plug.
As for Mercedes they know it will take time to get to the top, they have been saying since 2010 that 2013 is their target to get a competitive car, they have massive amounts of pressure from fans who expect them to have a competitive car right away because they took over Brawn which wasn't the team it was after Honda left.
Back to Williams, it has been stated in a Finnish article that Williams have made the decision that Barrichello won't race for them next season but they are yet to make it public, don't know if that's true or not
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
What can Barrichello offer Williams that Williams can't get elsewhere?
Even Maldonado - a much ridiculed pay driver going into this season - seems to be putting in performances that are either near or at or even better than Rubens.
Imagine what a more talented driver than Maldonado could achieve?
Rubino has had a long career. A LONG career. He also has truck loads of Ferrari money from his 6 years at the Scuderia.
Give some younger, hungrier and possibly faster soul a chance please...
Even Maldonado - a much ridiculed pay driver going into this season - seems to be putting in performances that are either near or at or even better than Rubens.
Imagine what a more talented driver than Maldonado could achieve?
Rubino has had a long career. A LONG career. He also has truck loads of Ferrari money from his 6 years at the Scuderia.
Give some younger, hungrier and possibly faster soul a chance please...
Not a lot given the car that Williams have built, perhaps maybe getting into Q2 regularly and fighting for the odd point here and there but that's about it. The problems at Williams go far deeper than the drivers not being good enough, the fact that they are even having to resort to a mediocre pay driver and a guy who should have retired after 2009 speaks volumes.
For whatever reason Williams haven't built on the successes of the 80's and 90's in the way that McLaren have for example. It wasn't that long ago that finishing off the podium would have been considered a disaster for the team. Now look at them, it's like watching a former World Football of The Year huffing and puffing around a sunday league pitch desperately trying to convince himself and others that they still have it.
In the same way I can't see McLaren turning out like Williams in 5-10yrs time, unfortunately I struggle to see how Williams can attract big sponsors/investors needed to get them back to the top. I give them 5 years before either Willams and Head sell up, or they disappear from the grid altogether.
The truth is that neither Williams nor Head are getting any younger, so it's not rocket science to think that they will both be handing over the reigns before too much longer. That's not to say though that this will necessarily be a bad thing, depending on who takes over. If it were someone like Ron Dennis when he took charge at Mclaren, for instance, then the future could still be quite positive. I somehow doubt though whether Adam Parr can be put in that category, so I hope for Williams F1's sake that he is not the man they are pinning their future hopes on..
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
Senna's_right_foot, they don't need to get to the top anytime soon.
Williams taking on the Grandees (Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren and Red Bull Racing) seems a tall ask but I do believe they have set a goal of 5th or 6th in the WCC.
Finishing 6th or 5th would make the going concern profitable.
They're a public company now so there's no reason they shouldn't be on the grid 5 years from now. Succession is being ensured.
Regardless, they have more resources than Sauber so, at a minimum, they ought to be able to beat Sauber.
Coughlan - unlike Michael - has actually designed winning cars within the past 5 or 6 or 7 years...so that's a big plus.
Coughlan + Renault = Some sembelence of future success.
It wouldn't surprise me if Williams are beating the likes of Sauber, Toro Rosso and Force India and even 'Renault' regularly 2 years from now.
They're pinning quite a lot on Coughlan, I fear. He has a good track record, but he's also been out of the sport for a while. Next year they'll be facing a doubly large income hit from FOM prize money and lost sponsors. I'm not sure how the cost of the Renault engines compares to the Cosworth either (but I'd be surprised if the Regie is cheaper).
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
Perhaps if Williams hire GP2 champ Grosjean, that could make the French engines come at a discount? 
Perhaps if Williams hire GP2 champ Grosjean, that could make the French engines come at a discount?
Not likely. I don't think Grosjean is enough of a front man for a c.$5m advertising campaign...yet. Anyway Romain belongs to Gravity, not Renault.
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
Understood!
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