RickD
Pole Sitter
Didn't they change the name of it to "Causing an Avoidable Collision"?
The Racing Line and avoidable accidents
- Thread starter Hamberg
- Start date
Didn't they change the name of it to "Causing an Avoidable Collision"?
It's actually just "causing a collision" under 16.1:
16) INCIDENTS
16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the race director for investigation) which:
- caused a collision;
- forced a driver off the track;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.
Interesting that we don't see the last 3 exercised much when this actually favours the attacking driver. Very ambiguous to say the least.
16) INCIDENTS
16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the race director for investigation) which:
- caused a collision;
- forced a driver off the track;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.
Interesting that we don't see the last 3 exercised much when this actually favours the attacking driver. Very ambiguous to say the least.
landogeorgelewis1
Champion Elect
The reason these push to pass buttons have come in is because off aerodynamics, which makes it hard to overtake. Personally i'd take alot of aero off the cars and the silly devices such as the DRS and KERS too. That way we'll probably see ovetakes looking alot more realistic and with the Tyres the way they are these days it'll make racing just as exciting as it is now.
RevMaxPower
Banned
Maybe chuck out the rule book and start again. For example, some of the BTCC rules would work well in F1. Maybe... 
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
Hmm, I'll have to look at the BTCC rule book as apart from strange reg's designed to keep all the cars at or near similar levels of performance it seems that if there are any rules concerning driving etiquette they are in the main ignored. Although, I do have to admit to witnessing a train of bubble cars strung together in something very much resembling a racing line. I love the way that the train is then routinely broken up by judicious use of a bump and barge technique.
Is that BTCC or have I been enjoying something else?
Is that BTCC or have I been enjoying something else?
RevMaxPower
Banned
Yes - Focus on "Rules concerning driver etiquette are in the main ignored." 
Bring on a RACE!
Bring on a RACE!
Racing Line: fastest, most efficient line round a clear track, the aim being to clip the apex of each corner, thus 'straightening out' the circuit as far as possible. Irrelevant to the question of overtaking.
An avoidable collision: a collision.
It seems to me that the judgement of whether any given collision is someone's fault or whether it is a 'racing incident' can depend (if you are a fan) on which driver you support or (if a steward) on whether there is an 'R' in the month and which way the wind is blowing.
An avoidable collision: a collision.
It seems to me that the judgement of whether any given collision is someone's fault or whether it is a 'racing incident' can depend (if you are a fan) on which driver you support or (if a steward) on whether there is an 'R' in the month and which way the wind is blowing.
I'll be interested to see if there is a more reasonable explanation
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
Yes, I did wonder whether or not my post just now was better suited to the gag dump. I apologise if my post was too light hearted. However, behind the smiles is a serious point. That being my concern with regard to the assumption that a racing line is somehow the guiding principle to who owns a paricular piece of tarmac. I have already posted earlier in this thread an explanation, which is not just my own view but shared also by the likes of Sterling Moss from whom I learned that little nugget many years ago. In Sterlings day drivers did give way in response to being shown a wheel because not to do so often resulted in serious injury and sometimes death. Driver etiquette has faded as safety standards have improved. Many drivers seem now to have a sense of invincibility where surviving a prang that looks more like an airplane crash has become the norm.
It's one thing to look for a solution in the rule book but that will never solve the root of the problem. That will only come through supporting what is in the rule book by improvements in driver education. I also feel that there needs to be some way for the sports governing body to assess driver's spacial awareness and setting a standard for driver's to meet prior to the granting of a superlicense as there seem to be drivers out there who somehow lack a sense or understanding of what is happening around them. I dare say that by saying that I may cause a can of worms to be opened and implore readers of my post not to get carried away with focussing on different drivers as examples and further derailing this thread. As I fear i may have strayed more than enough already.
It's one thing to look for a solution in the rule book but that will never solve the root of the problem. That will only come through supporting what is in the rule book by improvements in driver education. I also feel that there needs to be some way for the sports governing body to assess driver's spacial awareness and setting a standard for driver's to meet prior to the granting of a superlicense as there seem to be drivers out there who somehow lack a sense or understanding of what is happening around them. I dare say that by saying that I may cause a can of worms to be opened and implore readers of my post not to get carried away with focussing on different drivers as examples and further derailing this thread. As I fear i may have strayed more than enough already.
Perhaps not wholely irrelevent. particularly when assessing "causing an avoidable collision" if the driver x has the racing line and hence better route through and driver z doesn't, and z collides with x it creates an assumption that by virtue of not having the greater spead or traction could not execute the pass and so the collision will be that fitting into the rule.
It only gets exhausted when silly or off topic comments creep in Axle. I really wanted to hear the views of the likes of Galahad, FB, Jenov, Fat Jez etc but I fear they can't be bothered when certain people try to turn it into a chat room. Sorry but it's frustrating.
Sarinaide I am begging of you now - why do you think having the racing line gives a driver priority - you've still not answered that question but it's the crux of your arguments?
I should add the caveat to my last comment that a sudden, unexpected mechanical failure (such as a puncture, or a wheel coming off) which leads to a coming together could be legitimately described as causing an unavoidable collision.
Even then, in the latter case, one might still argue that the earlier incorrect fitting of the wheel nut that led to the wheel separating from the car made the subsequent accident 'avoidable'.
Even then, in the latter case, one might still argue that the earlier incorrect fitting of the wheel nut that led to the wheel separating from the car made the subsequent accident 'avoidable'.
And that gives people the right to start posting nonsense comments and derail the thread does it?
The thread is exhausted once the members decide there's nothing further to discuss, not when a handful of members who are unable to stay on topic and debate in an adult manner decide it is.
This is my final comment on the issue.
Those who have been asked and warned repeatedly know who they are.
There won't be any further requests or warnings, they will just be banned, for the good of the community.
RevMaxPower
Banned
In other words, another example of the Blame Culture.
I did, I said it doesn't give you right/priority, but if you have the line and the better drive and another forces you of it, it seems to fall into the scope of "driving another of the track". And all our arguements have related to the Button/Alonso incident, where for maybe .200ths of a second Button got his nose ahead, if he really had the better line and drive he would have simply just past Alonso for dead and would have made the apex to apex stick in that chicane, by virtue of heavy breaking and hitting Alonso from behind he really made an attempted pass that was never going to happen.
As to the rubbish about Alonso turning into Button, well the turn is a right hander and well he got ahead on speed and traction so I really don't see how any reasonable person can claim Alonso was in the wrong.
again I say there is a difference between a calculated pass and a gambit/risk, the deciding factor is common sense.
And if you are going to accuse me of bias, if the roles are reversed I would happily say that Mr Alonso would be in the wrong.
