Gopz Prasoon
Rookie
i was wondering, what were the parameters that decide "how technically challenging a track is...?" Pls share your insights on this...
The most technically challenging circuit
- Thread starter Gopz Prasoon
- Start date
Those with the most inputs by the driver I guess............combined I suppose with G (in all directions).
Andrea_Moda_Rules
Podium Finisher
Is there really a scientific way of seeing how 'techincal' a track is? I don't think there is. Has gethinceri said Driver feedback, what they say in the press and whatnot. Also its a lot do to with how many mistakes drivers make, variation on a drivers laps times during a stint.
"how technically challenging a track is...?" Also i note the cafeul wording, does that mean just how easy/hard to drive a track is? or lets say Monaco compared to moza. If its the latter then you can be more scientific about it. Then its todo with how much time is spent on the throttle, Speed of coners, how bumpy a track is. Time it takes on the exit of a corner to get on full throttle, how much braking needed to enter a corner.
Also with the latter. Monaco, Spa and Monza are 3 very diffent beasts. but all require diffent skill sets from the car and driver. just because Monza is mostly straights, Or Spa has fast coners doesn't mean it is necessarily less of a techinal challenge. Its just that they are 3 diffent types of techinque need to drive it.
"how technically challenging a track is...?" Also i note the cafeul wording, does that mean just how easy/hard to drive a track is? or lets say Monaco compared to moza. If its the latter then you can be more scientific about it. Then its todo with how much time is spent on the throttle, Speed of coners, how bumpy a track is. Time it takes on the exit of a corner to get on full throttle, how much braking needed to enter a corner.
Also with the latter. Monaco, Spa and Monza are 3 very diffent beasts. but all require diffent skill sets from the car and driver. just because Monza is mostly straights, Or Spa has fast coners doesn't mean it is necessarily less of a techinal challenge. Its just that they are 3 diffent types of techinque need to drive it.
I would probably opt for the Hungaroring as the most technically challenging track.Its very underused and its usually very hot and dusty.
Many drivers complain about it being very demanding and also due to the fact it is one of the slowest tracks on the current calender the driver have problems with setting the car up correctly and keeping tyre temperatures in the best operating zone.
Many drivers complain about it being very demanding and also due to the fact it is one of the slowest tracks on the current calender the driver have problems with setting the car up correctly and keeping tyre temperatures in the best operating zone.
To me, "technically challenging" means a very slight error can have dire consequences (ie: retirement). This automatically eliminates all Tilke tracks from such a description. It means that Monaco is at or near the top of the list due to the confined nature of the circuit.
ATL11
Pole Sitter
Couldn't that be classed as dangerous, but could danger be a sub part of Technical?
I'd see Technical challenging circuit as the track the drivers find the most difficult to drive. If there are 2 of equal stature then the one that scientifically pushed their ability the most, e.g. G forces:
Gopz Prasoon
Rookie
thank you guys for your posts.
Let me reintroduce myself,
I am an architecture student from India. i am doing my thesis project on designing a facility for hosting F1 races. As a part of it i also have to design a race track (though it has very little to do with architecture).I am having a hard time finding data on the subject.
I did some research on the internet and drew some conclusions. I learned the number of overtaking moves pulled off in a race has a direct relationship with its popularity(rating).On that grounds i tried to learn what are the overtaking moves popular in F1, and design the track where there was lot of scope for overtaking.
Now i wanted to take it ahead by studying about the "impact a circuit has on the cars" and the relationship between the number of retirements and popularity.
"Then its todo with how much time is spent on the throttle, Speed of coners, how bumpy a track is. Time it takes on the exit of a corner to get on full throttle, how much braking needed to enter a corner." Andrea_Moda_Rules Pole Sitter
These were the parameters i wanted to look into and how they test the performance of cars.It would have been great if we could have more discussions on this. As it should be obvious by now i am a newbie to motor sports and am interested in learning, pls help me out.
P.S. i am uploading my analysis and study. Pls go through it and let me know what you think.
Let me reintroduce myself,
I am an architecture student from India. i am doing my thesis project on designing a facility for hosting F1 races. As a part of it i also have to design a race track (though it has very little to do with architecture).I am having a hard time finding data on the subject.
I did some research on the internet and drew some conclusions. I learned the number of overtaking moves pulled off in a race has a direct relationship with its popularity(rating).On that grounds i tried to learn what are the overtaking moves popular in F1, and design the track where there was lot of scope for overtaking.
Now i wanted to take it ahead by studying about the "impact a circuit has on the cars" and the relationship between the number of retirements and popularity.
"Then its todo with how much time is spent on the throttle, Speed of coners, how bumpy a track is. Time it takes on the exit of a corner to get on full throttle, how much braking needed to enter a corner." Andrea_Moda_Rules Pole Sitter
These were the parameters i wanted to look into and how they test the performance of cars.It would have been great if we could have more discussions on this. As it should be obvious by now i am a newbie to motor sports and am interested in learning, pls help me out.
P.S. i am uploading my analysis and study. Pls go through it and let me know what you think.
Gopz Prasoon
Rookie
LifeW12
Podium Finisher
The most techically chellenging circuit of all time anywhere has to be the 30-odd mile Targa Florio but that didn't host any F1
The most technically challenging circuit has to be one where set up of the car is extremely difficult with a massive variety of corner shapes, kerb, straights, gradients, bumps and other bits (weather etc.)
Most tracks on the calender, even the Tilke ones have a few areas where the set up is all important but no one track of this era can be described as a real "challenge". Monaco and Silverstone are the closest to it.
The most technically challenging circuit has to be one where set up of the car is extremely difficult with a massive variety of corner shapes, kerb, straights, gradients, bumps and other bits (weather etc.)
Most tracks on the calender, even the Tilke ones have a few areas where the set up is all important but no one track of this era can be described as a real "challenge". Monaco and Silverstone are the closest to it.
The old Hockenheim layout must have proven tricky for the drivers - low downforce for the fast blasts out into the forest and back and then grip needed for the twisty stadium section. Looking at the way cars used to be set up though (low wing angles) they used to compromise the stadium for ultimate speed in the forest.
I suppose this raises the question of where is most time to be gained - if the circuit has longer low speed sections this is the way to set the car up, if more high speed sections then go this route. So for Hungary where there is only one high speed straight there is more time to be gained on the twisty bits, for Monza most time can be gained on the faster sections.
I suppose this raises the question of where is most time to be gained - if the circuit has longer low speed sections this is the way to set the car up, if more high speed sections then go this route. So for Hungary where there is only one high speed straight there is more time to be gained on the twisty bits, for Monza most time can be gained on the faster sections.
Incubus
Champion Elect
To answer the OP's query, I think a technically challenging circuit in the way drivers mean the phrase involves sections of the track where the ideal racing line isn't an exact science, where drivers can find a wider-than-average range of lines through complex series of corners where braking late might not actually help you come out of a corner as quickly and working the best compromises in order to go through a section in the quickest possible time. Whatever puts the onus on the driver to approach corners in the most efficient way possible.
A 90 decree right angle corner for example isn't seen as technically challenging, because all you hae to do it brake as late as possible and put the power on as early as possible on the exit.
Whereas Suzuka for example presents series of corners where the demands are far more complex to get it right.
A 90 decree right angle corner for example isn't seen as technically challenging, because all you hae to do it brake as late as possible and put the power on as early as possible on the exit.
Whereas Suzuka for example presents series of corners where the demands are far more complex to get it right.
I think Incubus' challenging circuits and circuits where overtaking is most probable are distinct. Suzuka, for example, is one of the most technical circuits and one of the least likely to produce much overtaking Kobayashi notwithstanding.
Indeed so Incubus - remember the problems drivers had when they arrived at the new circuit in Turkey for the first time and had to work out how to drive through turn 8. Most unusual to find a corner which has as many apexes that a driver must hit or get thrown off the track. The Parabolica at Monza is another example where the driver must adjust road position through the corner to get the best speed. Not sure if, other than Turkey, any Tilke circuits have multiple apex or a parabolical corners.
One thing you may want to factor into the overtaking data (which seems familiar 
) is that the amount of overtakes in Belgium, China and Australia is boosted by the fact that the races were wet.
In addition, the most important thing imho on overtaking is the corner before the "opportunity". If the drivers can get close to the car in front exiting a corner it becomes possible to utilise the techniques you so diligently note.
Anyway, good luck, Gopz, hope it all goes well
) is that the amount of overtakes in Belgium, China and Australia is boosted by the fact that the races were wet.In addition, the most important thing imho on overtaking is the corner before the "opportunity". If the drivers can get close to the car in front exiting a corner it becomes possible to utilise the techniques you so diligently note.
Anyway, good luck, Gopz, hope it all goes well
Gopz Prasoon
Rookie
thank you teabagyokelitried looking for any material to read on found little.... pls suggest if you know any
EvilWhippet
Podium Finisher
I think often the parts of a track where the driver can make the most difference are those 2nd gear tricky corners where the aerodynamics can't be at their optimum. This should mean Monaco except that track is unique in it's natural flow.
Is it, I wonder, the circuit where there is the biggest discrepancy between team-mates' lap times? In the old days, it was the Nurburgring Nordschleife that separated the men from the boys. Is it Monaco now? At such circuits, the driver is a bigger part of the overall performance package, whereas at others (I would suggest Catalunya) the driver is very restricted by the limitations of his machinery in terms of pure downforce, power, tyre grip etc.
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